Depleted Uranium Rounds: Afganistan, Iraq, Yugoslavia


log in

Advanced search

Message boards : Politics : Depleted Uranium Rounds: Afganistan, Iraq, Yugoslavia

1 · 2 · 3 · 4 . . . 5 · Next
Author Message
MrGray
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 05
Posts: 3177
Credit: 60,411
RAC: 0
United States
Message 603243 - Posted: 14 Jul 2007, 9:31:40 UTC

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5109486402266517406&q=en

23 min 39 sec


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-939782874167532503&q=en

22 min


more



____________
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

mike keppler
Send message
Joined: 13 May 07
Posts: 11
Credit: 11,733
RAC: 0
United States
Message 603254 - Posted: 14 Jul 2007, 10:05:33 UTC

as long as there over there

MrGray
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 05
Posts: 3177
Credit: 60,411
RAC: 0
United States
Message 603516 - Posted: 14 Jul 2007, 19:38:08 UTC
Last modified: 14 Jul 2007, 19:38:30 UTC

Our troops and civilians of the region within a 10,000 mile radius may beg to differ.
____________
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Profile Rush
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 3133
Credit: 302,569
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 603584 - Posted: 14 Jul 2007, 21:31:28 UTC - in response to Message 603516.

Our troops and civilians of the region within a 10,000 mile radius may beg to differ.

You go to war with what you have, and DP rounds are extremely effective, your hyperbole notwithstanding.

As an aside, they're being phased out as better systems come on line.
____________
Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

MrGray
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 05
Posts: 3177
Credit: 60,411
RAC: 0
United States
Message 603587 - Posted: 14 Jul 2007, 21:36:12 UTC
Last modified: 14 Jul 2007, 21:38:15 UTC

1 million years of efficiency.

After a tank, or any other target is destroyed, SOP is to clear the area. Our troops get it before anyone else. The target has the benefit of being dead already.

Any international members have any thoughts about these crimes against humanity? I'm sure there will be.
____________
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Profile Rush
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 3133
Credit: 302,569
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 603649 - Posted: 14 Jul 2007, 22:34:32 UTC - in response to Message 603587.

1 million years of efficiency.

What does that mean?

After a tank, or any other target is destroyed, SOP is to clear the area.

Yeah, because there are a lot more instantly deadly things that are often in a tank. Unexploded ordinance, for one.

Our troops get it before anyone else.

Get what? "Our" troops don't eat DU dust. The handle DU rounds, but so what?

The target has the benefit of being dead already.

Which is exactly the point. Make the other guy give his life for his country.

Any international members have any thoughts about these crimes against humanity? I'm sure there will be.

The use of DU rounds are now crimes against humanity, eh? Good luck with that one.
____________
Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

MrGray
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 05
Posts: 3177
Credit: 60,411
RAC: 0
United States
Message 603652 - Posted: 14 Jul 2007, 22:36:41 UTC

The answers are in the videos you scrolled past.



.
____________
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Profile Rush
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 3133
Credit: 302,569
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 603721 - Posted: 14 Jul 2007, 23:45:12 UTC - in response to Message 603652.

The answers are in the videos you scrolled past.

I don't have any questions about DU. I asked what you think, not what you can cut and paste.
____________
Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

MrGray
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 05
Posts: 3177
Credit: 60,411
RAC: 0
United States
Message 603722 - Posted: 14 Jul 2007, 23:50:53 UTC
Last modified: 14 Jul 2007, 23:52:30 UTC

I think you don't have enough information to discuss this topic.

I think you still have time to review the data before many see your comments.

I think I was just like you before looking into it.

I think you are a good person living in a bubble.




.
____________
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Profile Rush
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 3133
Credit: 302,569
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 603726 - Posted: 14 Jul 2007, 23:57:17 UTC - in response to Message 603722.

I think you don't have enough information to discuss this topic.

You can safely rest assured, that if I take the time to discuss something, I have plenty of information to discuss the topic. I wouldn't bother to reply if I didn't.

I think you still have time to review the data before many see your comments.

My comments are there for all to see. Frankly, I would be MUCH more worried about your posts than mine.

I think I was just like you before looking into it.

I have looked into it. I spent nearly 10 years as a U.S. Army Interrogator and am quite familiar with weapons systems, their pluses and minuses, and the uses thereof.

I think you are a good person living in a bubble.

What possibly could have given you the impression that I care about your wholly subjective and erroneous opinion about me? It certainly has no place in a discussion about depleted uranium.
____________
Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

MrGray
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 05
Posts: 3177
Credit: 60,411
RAC: 0
United States
Message 603753 - Posted: 15 Jul 2007, 0:31:38 UTC

Ok...

1 million years of efficiency.

What does that mean?


In military applications, when alloyed, Depleted Uranium [DU] is ideal for use in armor penetrators. These solid metal projectiles have the speed, mass and physical properties to perform exceptionally well against armored targets. DU provides a substantial performance advantage, well above other competing materials. This allows DU penetrators to defeat an armored target at a significantly greater distance. Also, DU's density and physical properties make it ideal for use as armor plate. DU has been used in weapon systems for many years in both applications.

Depleted uranium results from the enriching of natural uranium for use in nuclear reactors. Natural uranium is a slightly radioactive metal that is present in most rocks and soils as well as in many rivers and sea water. Natural uranium consists primarily of a mixture of two isotopes (forms) of uranium, Uranium-235 (U235) and Uranium-238 (U238), in the proportion of about 0.7 and 99.3 percent, respectively. Nuclear reactors require U235 to produce energy, therefore, the natural uranium has to be enriched to obtain the isotope U235 by removing a large part of the U238. Uranium-238 becomes DU, which is 0.7 times as radioactive as natural uranium. Since DU has a half-life of 4.5 billion years, there is very little decay of those DU materials.

This makes cluster bombs, that still kill and maim in Vietnam today, look like a blessing.


There's the wind up... and now the pitch:

As shown in the videos, when DU rounds are used, these radioactive particles are air born and melded with the metals in the targets. These are easily transported via wind and the initial explosion over a radius of 10,000 miles, but not limited to it.


Now... Do you have any idea what a single particle can do to a human?

Our military didn't have to use DU rounds to beat the Iraqi armored divisions. This much is known. What's not known is why the US would use them knowing it's shelf life in the atmosphere and region? And why would anyone want radio active poisoning for their own troops who clear the sector? Down wind bystanders get the same gift of love as those at the impact.

*See my notes that follow this article for my summary.




MSNBC:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14321787/

Updated: 7:43 p.m. PT Aug 12, 2006

NEW YORK - It takes at least 10 minutes and a large glass of orange juice to wash down all the pills —morphine, methadone, a muscle relaxant, an antidepressant, a stool softener. Viagra for sexual dysfunction. Valium for his nerves.

Four hours later, Herbert Reed will swallow another 15 mg of morphine to cut the pain clenching every part of his body. He will do it twice more before the day is done.

Since he left a bombed-out train depot in Iraq, his gums bleed. There is more blood in his urine, and still more in his stool. Bright light hurts his eyes. A tumor has been removed from his thyroid. Rashes erupt everywhere, itching so badly they seem to live inside his skin. Migraines cleave his skull. His joints ache, grating like door hinges in need of oil.
Story continues below ↓advertisement

There is something massively wrong with Herbert Reed, though no one is sure what it is. He believes he knows the cause, but he cannot convince anyone caring for him that the military's new favorite weapon has made him terrifyingly sick.

In the sprawling bureaucracy of the Department of Veterans Affairs, he has many caretakers. An internist, a neurologist, a pain-management specialist, a psychologist, an orthopedic surgeon and a dermatologist. He cannot function without his stupefying arsenal of medications, but they exact a high price.

"I'm just a zombie walking around," he says.

Billions of pounds of suspect metal
Reed believes depleted uranium has contaminated him and his life. He now walks point in a vitriolic war over the Pentagon's arsenal of it — thousands of shells and hundreds of tanks coated with the metal that is radioactive, chemically toxic, and nearly twice as dense as lead.

A shell coated with depleted uranium pierces a tank like a hot knife through butter, exploding on impact into a charring inferno. As tank armor, it repels artillery assaults. It also leaves behind a fine radioactive dust with a half-life of 4.5 billion years.

Depleted uranium is the garbage left from producing enriched uranium for nuclear weapons and energy plants. It is 60 percent as radioactive as natural uranium. The U.S. has an estimated 1.5 billion pounds of it, sitting in hazardous waste storage sites across the country. Meaning it is plentiful and cheap as well as highly effective.

Reed says he unknowingly breathed DU dust while living with his unit in Samawah, Iraq. He was med-evaced out in July 2003, nearly unable to walk because of lightning-strike pains from herniated discs in his spine. Then began a strange series of symptoms he'd never experienced in his previously healthy life.

Click to vote
Is depleted uranium making U.S. soldiers sick?

‘We all felt sick’
At Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, D.C, he ran into a buddy from his unit. And another, and another, and in the tedium of hospital life between doctor visits and the dispensing of meds, they began to talk.

"We all had migraines. We all felt sick," Reed says. "The doctors said, 'It's all in your head.' "

Then the medic from their unit showed up. He too, was suffering. That made eight sick soldiers from the 442nd Military Police, an Army National Guard unit made up of mostly cops and correctional officers from the New York area.

But the medic knew something the others didn't.

Dutch marines had taken over the abandoned train depot dubbed Camp Smitty, which was surrounded by tank skeletons, unexploded ordnance and shell casings. They'd brought radiation-detection devices. The readings were so hot, the Dutch set up camp in the middle of the desert rather than live in the station ruins.

"We got on the Internet," Reed said, "and we started researching depleted uranium."

Then they contacted The New York Daily News, which paid for sophisticated urine tests available only overseas.

Then they hired a lawyer.

Tests come up positive, but ...
Reed, Gerard Matthew, Raymond Ramos, Hector Vega, Augustin Matos, Anthony Yonnone, Jerry Ojeda and Anthony Phillip all have depleted uranium in their urine, according to tests done in December 2003, while they bounced for months between Walter Reed and New Jersey's Fort Dix medical center, seeking relief that never came.

The analyses were done in Germany, by a Frankfurt professor who developed a depleted uranium test with Randall Parrish, a professor of isotope geology at the University of Leicester in Britain.

The veterans, using their positive results as evidence, have sued the U.S. Army, claiming officials knew the hazards of depleted uranium, but concealed the risks.

The Department of Defense says depleted uranium is powerful and safe, and not that worrisome.

Four of the highest-registering samples from Frankfurt were sent to the VA. Those results were negative, Reed said. "Their test just isn't as sophisticated," he said. "And when we first asked to be tested, they told us there wasn't one. They've lied to us all along."

The VA's testing methodology is safe and accurate, the agency says. More than 2,100 soldiers from the current war have asked to be tested; only 8 had DU in their urine, the VA said.



*See article which is more than 5 pages.


You have served our country and I am proud of you and respect and all military personnel. My point it we are poisoning our own troops while using weapons not needed to get the job done.

You know ordinances. You know what we can do without DURs. Why does our government do this? Is it important to make a region of our planet uninhabitable for the next million-billion years?

Are we there to liberate or eliminate?


Operation
Iraqi
Liberation


People die and the 1% who own 90% of all on our planet gain more. Our soldiers clear the way for the oil tankers driven by people making 10 times what they make. Money isn't everything to soldiers. But why are we there? Where are the WMDs? Will our soldiers have suitable medical care when they and their families get ill and their children are born with insanely screwed birth defects?

So what will the world think of us when this effect spreads? Will we be so cocky then? Is it really a matter of "over there" and "over here?"


This is the bubble.


.
____________
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Profile Rush
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 3133
Credit: 302,569
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 603762 - Posted: 15 Jul 2007, 1:12:07 UTC - in response to Message 603753.
Last modified: 15 Jul 2007, 1:17:44 UTC

In military applications, when alloyed, Depleted Uranium [DU] is ideal for use in armor penetrators.

You understand that, right? "[I]deal for use in armor penetrators." That's why it is used.

Another one, "DU's density and physical properties make it ideal for use as armor plate."

Now... Do you have any idea what a single particle can do to a human?

Absolutely nothing because single particles (whatever that means) aren't enough to cause heavy metal poisoning and they're too small to contain enough radioactivity to cause radiation poisoning either. In fact, you'd have to eat enough of it to really poison you bad to get enough such that the radiation contained in it would cause you problems. But so what? You could do that with lead. Or iron. Both will kill you very very quickly if ingested as powder, far far faster than DU would. And they aren't radioactive at all.

Our military didn't have to use DU rounds to beat the Iraqi armored divisions. This much is known. What's not known is why the US would use them knowing it's shelf life in the atmosphere and region?

Armor piercing rounds aren't designed to beat the world's worst weapons systems and armor, they're designed to beat the best. You generally don't say "OK, boys, design me a weapon so that we can clean up against the Crinkled-up Tinfoil Armor Brigade," you do a cost/benefit analysis to determine what your best bet is.

U.S. Army M1A2 tanks are gasoline hogs. They're fast, but they just DRINK the fuel and that is a significant weakness because they are almost tethered to fuel trucks. Therefore, they carry the most efficient weapons that they can, in order to keep the weight that they carry down and hence use less fuel.

That's why they are used. It's a rational decision in the prosecution of war. One you may disagree with, but if you can understand why you don't care what they think, you can understand why they don't care what you think.

And why would anyone want radio active poisoning for their own troops who clear the sector?

What, as compared to getting maimed? Killed? Crippled? Scarred? You don't "want" your soldiers harmed, but that's the very nature of war: you send them into harm's way. At least in the U.S., they volunteer to do this, and rare indeed is the tanker that would say, nope, I'll take getting killed, maimed, crippled, scarred, and I'll even risk having my body pulled forcibly through a six-inch hole on the side of the tank, but there's no way in hell I'm going to touch a DU round." That's silly.

Down wind bystanders get the same gift of love as those at the impact.

Yep. War is hell.

You have served our country and I am proud of you and respect and all military personnel. My point it we are poisoning our own troops while using weapons not needed to get the job done.

That is your opinion. Those weapons are in the arsenal now, and, as they are used, are being replaced with better weapons.

You know ordinances. You know what we can do without DURs. Why does our government do this? Is it important to make a region of our planet uninhabitable for the next million-billion years?

Really. "Uninhabitable for the next million-billion years?" You should take a look at the pictures of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. You know, where ACTUAL nuclear weapons were used, where there actually were extremely high levels of radioactivity. Oh, and the bombs used were extremely dirty ones, by today's standards. Tell me how uninhabitable those places are. DU dust is a negligible risk by comparison.

Are we there to liberate or eliminate?

Well, seeing as we didn't eradicate the Iraqis and we aren't eradicating the Iraqis, you tell me.

People die and the 1% who own 90% of all on our planet gain more. Our soldiers clear the way for the oil tankers driven by people making 10 times what they make. Money isn't everything to soldiers. But why are we there? Where are the WMDs? Will our soldiers have suitable medical care when they and their families get ill and their children are born with insanely screwed birth defects?

Why are we there? Because people beg politicians to meddle in the lives of others. Kinda like you do, to fund some half-assed health care program. When you beg the gov't to meddle, sometimes you get unemployment insurance (heh) and sometimes you get war. And lots of it.

So what will the world think of us when this effect spreads? Will we be so cocky then? Is it really a matter of "over there" and "over here?"

99% percent of the world will go on doing exactly what they always have--try to make a better life for themselves and their families. So as far as who "we" is, it is those that have begged the gov't to meddle.

You asked for it, brother.

Happy now?
____________
Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

MrGray
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 05
Posts: 3177
Credit: 60,411
RAC: 0
United States
Message 603769 - Posted: 15 Jul 2007, 1:27:36 UTC

Why the scare in the media over dirty bombs here in the US when we are doing the equivilant of hundreds of Hiroshimas in Iraq?

War is hell, but why the war?

Answer:

- So we could open an gas pipeline from the caspian sea through afghanistan.
- So we could steal trillions the first 14 months of the occupation in Iraq.

Our citizens have paid 100 Billion Dollars for 5 years running so our corporations like Bush's oil and Chaney's weapons company can get richer. Just like gov research is paid by us and sold to the highest bidder.

There is plenty of money for health care but there is way to much money to be made in Iraq for the few at the top of the pyramid.

We are pawns in the game of Capitalism.

Wasn't always like this.



.
____________
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Profile Rush
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 3133
Credit: 302,569
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 603783 - Posted: 15 Jul 2007, 1:56:42 UTC - in response to Message 603769.
Last modified: 15 Jul 2007, 1:58:12 UTC

Why the scare in the media over dirty bombs here in the US when we are doing the equivilant of hundreds of Hiroshimas in Iraq?

Because we aren't doing the equivalent. You can hold DU rounds in your hand without shielding, the dust doesn't become more radioactive. Try that with weaponized, enriched uranium or plutonium and you'll see damage within minutes.

War is hell, but why the war?

Because people beg the gov't to meddle in the lives of others. Sometimes you get a little AFDC, sometimes you get DU rounds.

Answer:

- So we could open an gas pipeline from the caspian sea through afghanistan.
- So we could steal trillions the first 14 months of the occupation in Iraq.

Our citizens have paid 100 Billion Dollars for 5 years running so our corporations like Bush's oil and Chaney's weapons company can get richer. Just like gov research is paid by us and sold to the highest bidder.

And you want those very same people in charge of your health care. Yay! That's a really smart idea.

None of this has anything to do with DU.

There is plenty of money for health care but there is way to much money to be made in Iraq for the few at the top of the pyramid.

Hey, you support the system. You seem to think that it's OK to advocate that the gov't use force to make people who wouldn't otherwise do so freely, pay into your pyramid health care scheme. Guess what? There are other people that think that it's OK to advocate the gov't to use force to make you pay for DU rounds, war in Iraq, the WHISC, and tons of this crap. See how that works? IT'S JUST FORCE. They don't want to pay for your BS system of "health care," you don't want to pay for their BS wars and weapons. They don't care what you think, you don't care what they think. All that matters is that either group can get the gov't to use force against the other.

We are pawns in the game of Capitalism. Wasn't always like this.

Nope, you're pawns in the game of gov't force, one that you ASKED for. Not one company on earth can make you buy their products, not one.

You see, Lenovo can't make you buy their computer, Motorola can't make you buy their phone. BCBS can't make you buy their insurance. THAT is capitalism--if it ain't worth it, you walk the hell away.

By contrast, you seem to want to gov't to use force, you want to make people buy into "Michael and Your" health care system. Well, other people want to make you buy DU rounds. And you can't walk away from either one. That is NOT capitalism: it's gov't force.

Good plan.
____________
Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

MrGray
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 05
Posts: 3177
Credit: 60,411
RAC: 0
United States
Message 603787 - Posted: 15 Jul 2007, 2:06:22 UTC
Last modified: 15 Jul 2007, 2:19:46 UTC

I ask the world for US citizens forgiveness. I doubt we will get, or deserve it. But for the record, Some American's actually care about all peoples of the world. We are simply powerless because of years of conditioning and oppression.

Outlined below, the effects of American media can clearly be used as proof of our "innocence."(<---The nice word.)

God help us all.


.
____________
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Profile Rush
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 3133
Credit: 302,569
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 603803 - Posted: 15 Jul 2007, 2:51:42 UTC - in response to Message 603787.

I ask the world for US citizens forgiveness. I doubt we will get, or deserve it. But for the record, Some American's actually care about all peoples of the world. We are simply powerless because of years of conditioning and oppression.

Outlined below, the effects of American media can clearly be used as proof of our "innocence."(<---The nice word.)

God help us all.

Wow. You didn't even try. How effective.

____________
Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

MrGray
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Aug 05
Posts: 3177
Credit: 60,411
RAC: 0
United States
Message 603807 - Posted: 15 Jul 2007, 3:05:08 UTC

You did all the work for me...


Kudos




.
____________
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Profile Rush
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 3 Apr 99
Posts: 3133
Credit: 302,569
RAC: 0
United Kingdom
Message 603817 - Posted: 15 Jul 2007, 3:29:36 UTC - in response to Message 603807.

You did all the work for me... Kudos

Yeah, I rule.

____________
Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

Profile jason_gee
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 24 Nov 06
Posts: 5057
Credit: 73,920,671
RAC: 12,032
Australia
Message 603842 - Posted: 15 Jul 2007, 4:50:10 UTC - in response to Message 603817.

A little extra reading:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium

____________
"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is the most adaptable to change."
Charles Darwin

Profile Jeffrey
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 21 Nov 03
Posts: 4793
Credit: 26,029
RAC: 0
Message 604418 - Posted: 16 Jul 2007, 6:29:31 UTC - in response to Message 603722.

I think I was just like you before looking into it.

I think you are a good person living in a bubble.

;)
____________
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

1 · 2 · 3 · 4 . . . 5 · Next

Message boards : Politics : Depleted Uranium Rounds: Afganistan, Iraq, Yugoslavia

Copyright © 2014 University of California