Michael Moore's: Sicko

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MrGray
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Message 598573 - Posted: 4 Jul 2007, 19:32:46 UTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joaAfBr9tAE

Anyone see this and have a comment?
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
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Message 598612 - Posted: 4 Jul 2007, 20:27:16 UTC

Yup i gots the movie,watched it...shocking and sad.
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Message 598764 - Posted: 4 Jul 2007, 23:36:00 UTC - in response to Message 598612.  

Yup i gots the movie,watched it...shocking and sad.

But a very good movie. If you are in the US and you think that you have medical coverage, you need to see this.


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Message 598767 - Posted: 4 Jul 2007, 23:38:39 UTC - in response to Message 598764.  

Yup i gots the movie,watched it...shocking and sad.

But a very good movie. If you are in the US and you think that you have medical coverage, you need to see this.

Yup...but i just cant believe its that bad?
I mean there must be a wee bit of dramatization?

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Message 598869 - Posted: 5 Jul 2007, 3:04:32 UTC - in response to Message 598767.  

Yup i gots the movie,watched it...shocking and sad.

But a very good movie. If you are in the US and you think that you have medical coverage, you need to see this.

Yup...but i just cant believe its that bad?
I mean there must be a wee bit of dramatization?

Of course there is a wee bit of dramatization. There are actually some policies (mostly through employers) that do cover you - the employer wants to keep its good employees. However, I have had one of the insurance policies that did not really want to cover you. We had to fight tooth and nail to get them to pay for anything. We had to use my wife's medical expertise (she is an MD) to get through the blockades they put up. When we were switching policies, she had to have urgent surgery (not quite emergency) and the doctors delayed it for a week just because the new insurance would actually pay them in a timely manner. We also had an insurance policy that we paid entirely out of our own pockets - this kept jacking the rates up. Fortunately we had the opportunity of an employer based health insurance policy (this employer didn't care, and it stank - see earlier in this post).

I had one policy when I was just out of college that had a $1000 deductible - per illness, not per year (ouch). Fortunately, it was cheap, and I was healthy.


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Message 598875 - Posted: 5 Jul 2007, 3:16:17 UTC

The company I work for offers health insurance...at a rate per month that anyone with a family can't afford.

The rate for a single person is over $350 per month. It goes up drastically if more than one person needs coverage.

To some....that amount may not seem like much. But when the amount you would have to pay for coverage equals one week's pay, you just kinda hope that you stay healthy.
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Message 598879 - Posted: 5 Jul 2007, 3:31:53 UTC - in response to Message 598875.  

The company I work for offers health insurance...at a rate per month that anyone with a family can't afford.

The rate for a single person is over $350 per month. It goes up drastically if more than one person needs coverage.

To some....that amount may not seem like much. But when the amount you would have to pay for coverage equals one week's pay, you just kinda hope that you stay healthy.

I understand where you are comming from, and that is one of Michael Moore's points - the poor can't afford insurance, and can't afford to get sick. His overall point is that the current healthcare system in the US is in need of an overhaul. Many doctors are of the same opinion - they absoloutely hate dealing with the insurance companies - whose sole reason for existence is to deny medical care (the mantra is "We are not denying medical care, we are merely denying payment.").

Not all employers are that stingy. My current employer covers all but about $250 per month for family coverage. I really don't remember what it is for single, but I believe it is around $50. Also, $3 or $5 prescriptions and $17 copays for doctors visits.


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Message 598883 - Posted: 5 Jul 2007, 3:51:44 UTC

True,

The movie mentions people without health care insurance but the movie is really about the people who do have it but are denied payment from the insurance companies.


Senator Fred Thompson Responds To Michael Moore's Offer To Debate:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=0f2_1179271467

15th May 2007 CANNES -- There's a gathering storm of controversy surrounding Michael Moore's new documentary "Sicko," which will have its world premiere Saturday at the Festival de Cannes. But as far as the international distributors circling the film are concerned, it could prove no more than a tempest in a teapot.

Pro- and anti-Moore factions are trading blows in the U.S. following news that the U.S. Treasury Department is investigating the "Fahrenheit 9/11" director for possibly violating America's trade embargo with Cuba by taking ailing Sept. 11 rescue workers to the island for medical treatment.

On Tuesday, Moore challenged former U.S. senator and possible presidential candidate Fred Thompson to a debate over health care after Thompson accused Moore of having a soft spot for Cuban leader Fidel Castro -- Moore even suggested Thompson might have violated the embargo himself by importing Montecristo cigars from Havana.

"They started this," Moore said of his critics, "and I think that somehow by making some sort of example of me, that helps them with a certain community in terms of voters." The director went so far as to send a duplicate master of the film to a "safe house" outside the country to ensure he would have no problem providing Cannes with a print.

While the debate could provide plenty of free publicity for the Weinstein Co., which will release "Sicko" in the U.S. on June 29 through Lionsgate, the Cuba controversy is not playing big overseas.

"The Cuba embargo is an issue that is very confusing for non-Americans and one that few people outside of Miami care about, to be honest," a prominent German acquisitions exec said. "The controversy is being covered by all the papers in Europe, but I don't think anyone will go see the movie because of it."

TFM Distribution, which is releasing "Sicko" in France, said they were waiting to see the reaction of the Cannes audience before forming a promotion strategy for the film. Japanese distributor Gaga Communications is adopting a similar "wait-and-see" approach.

Stateside, however, Lionsgate and the Weinstein Co. are making the Treasury Department's investigation a key focus of their "Sicko" campaign. The Weinstein Co. has hired David Boies, the chief attorney in Al Gore's recount battle against George Bush in the 2000 U.S. presidential election, to help on the "Sicko" case. Chris Lehane, a political consultant on the film, said in an interview that TWC and Lionsgate would "go to the mattresses for this film and fight the Bush efforts in every way possible."

On the anti-Moore side, News Corp. properties Fox News and the New York Post have run editorials and commentaries slamming the filmmaker.

While the Treasury Dept. triggered the current contretemps, "It's Harvey (Weinstein) up to his old tricks, doing his Barnum & Bailey act," said one prominent studio marketing executive. "It's a textbook 'create a controversy' to rev up all the people who hate the government and bring attention to the movie, which is what film marketing is all about. A-plus to them."

Whether such an approach will work in international markets depends on how provocative "Sicko" is seen to be and to what degree Moore's expose of the U.S. health care system can bridge the language/culture barrier.

Glen Basner, Weinstein Co. president of distribution, said the company is taking the same approach to promoting "Sicko" internationally as it is in the U.S.

"Moore is seen in a similar way both within and outside of the US -- a cinematic version of a Mark Twain or Will Rogers -- who uses humor and imagery to stick his finger in the eye of the establishment on behalf of the little guy," Basner said. "His movies, though focused on U.S. issues, certainly transcend an American audience because they are both funny, provocative and ultimately human ... and that is why they have enjoyed both domestic and international appeal."

For many international buyers, the challenge for Moore will not be to get people to talk about his film but to convince audiences he has something new to say.

"When 'Bowling for Columbine' and 'Fahrenheit 9/11' came out they were so new, Moore's personal style, his humor. Now everyone is doing 'Moore-style' documentaries," said a prominent European acquisitions executive. "Even 'Borat' used some of the same techniques. The question with 'Sicko' is can Moore still surprise and shock us, or will this be more of the same?"
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
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Message 598884 - Posted: 5 Jul 2007, 3:53:54 UTC - in response to Message 598573.  
Last modified: 5 Jul 2007, 4:06:12 UTC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joaAfBr9tAE

Anyone see this and have a comment?


I am so glad I live in England.

Same chance of being killed by medical intevention but less chance of dying because you don't have the money. (Universally the 4th highest cause of death is medical intervention..)

My taxes are high but I know everyone will be served.


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Message 598976 - Posted: 5 Jul 2007, 9:15:49 UTC
Last modified: 5 Jul 2007, 9:16:55 UTC

Did any of you ever see a film called "The Rainmaker"?

It pretty much showed what insurance companies are all about years ago. It was fictional but oh so true. You can also read the book by John Grisham.
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Message 599021 - Posted: 5 Jul 2007, 12:58:59 UTC
Last modified: 5 Jul 2007, 12:59:09 UTC

Part of the problem




.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
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Message 599039 - Posted: 5 Jul 2007, 13:37:51 UTC - in response to Message 599021.  

Part of the problem.

OMG! That was hilarious!!!
I'll bet Dune Finkleberry would like that video.
Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.
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Message 599225 - Posted: 5 Jul 2007, 20:56:50 UTC - in response to Message 598884.  

I am so glad I live in England.

Same chance of being killed by medical intevention but less chance of dying because you don't have the money. (Universally the 4th highest cause of death is medical intervention..)My taxes are high but I know everyone will be served.

That's simply untrue.

Everyone won't be served because it would bankrupt an already over-burdened system. You just get rationed health care--the gov't has no choice. What that means in practice is that you feel better about heath care being "free" and "available to everyone," and in reality people simply die because they cannot afford to pay for what would actually keep them alive.

Anyone ever notice how even the drastically poor in both the UK and the US can afford mobile phones, bread, and color TVs? Ever consider that maybe that's because large companies are fighting like hell to drive the costs down so that more people can afford such things?

How much fighting do you think goes into driving health care costs down, given that without fighting at all these companies get huge checks from insurers or the gov't. Where do you think there incentive is there, to pressure prices to drop, or to pressure them to rise?

Hmmmmm?
Cordially,
Rush

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Message 599229 - Posted: 5 Jul 2007, 20:59:45 UTC - in response to Message 599225.  

I do not own a cell phone.
I do have a color TV, 13", purchased around Christmas 1997.
Shall I go on?
Oh, and if I could not get bread or something similar, would I be posting right now?
Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.
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Message 599237 - Posted: 5 Jul 2007, 21:06:09 UTC - in response to Message 599229.  

I do not own a cell phone.
I do have a color TV, 13", purchased around Christmas 1997.
Shall I go on?

Since you seemed to have missed the point entirely, that's up to you.

Oh, and if I could not get bread or something similar, would I be posting right now?

Maybe try substitution here. Maybe your computer would work in place of mobile phone in the example? Maybe the leisure time you have to post here would work as well, given that you don't have to spend every waking moment scraping to buy some (really really really cheap) bread?
Cordially,
Rush

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Message 599240 - Posted: 5 Jul 2007, 21:08:35 UTC

Humor can illustrate so well...

Prostitution Insurance
By Arnold Kling
May 18, 2007

Once upon a time in America, an employer came up with an idea for saving on payroll expenses. He noticed that many of his employees seemed uncomfortable with the idea of paying for sex, even though they wanted it. So he tried reducing worker salaries by $1000 a month, and instead he gave his workers an insurance card that they could present to prostitutes whenever the workers wanted their services. Paying for the card cost only $500 a month per worker, so the employer made higher profits.

A few years later, a major war broke out, and the government put limits on worker salaries. Employers were unable to give raises. Instead, many employers copied the idea of prostitution insurance, and the government winked, allowing employers to circumvent the salary limits.

After the war was over and salary limits were lifted, the practice of offering prostitution insurance remained widespread. In part, this was because income tax rates were now higher than they had ever been, and prostitution insurance was an untaxed fringe benefit.

Two decades after the war, a President with a compassionate agenda won a landslide re-election victory. He delivered on campaign promises to use taxpayer funds to provide prostitution insurance to the poor and to the elderly.

Both consumers and the providers of prostitution services became accustomed to using insurance cards. Paying for sex directly was frowned upon as something no decent, middle-class person would do. Instead, the first thing that would happen when a consumer visited a brothel or a prostitute was that the consumer would present his insurance card to be photocopied.

Over time, prostitution became increasingly sophisticated and expensive. Scientists and engineers developed expensive new sex toys, and highly-paid specialists grew to outnumber ordinary general prostitutes.

Nonetheless, not everyone was happy. Some consumers were not employed by companies offering prostitution insurance, nor were they eligible for government-provided prostitution insurance. Sometimes, these consumers would show up at brothels and expect free sex, with the cost shifted to other consumers.

There was a market for individual prostitution insurance, but it never really developed properly. Many consumers were willing to remain uninsured, and insurance companies saw little opportunity to profit from this small market.

The cost of employer-provided prostitution insurance continued to rise. It began to eat up a larger and larger portion of potential salary increases. Both employers and employees became troubled by this trend.

Many people began to agitate for universal, government-provided prostitution insurance, arguing that such systems were working in Canada and in many European countries. Such a single-payer system for prostitution would solve the growing problems of the uninsured and relieve the strains of employer-provided prostitution insurance. Most importantly, it would allow people to continue to be insulated from having to pay for sex.

Unfortunately, shifting the costs of prostitution insurance to taxpayers was fiscally impossible. Prosticare, the government's popular insurance program for the elderly, was projected to run into deficits of tens of trillions of dollars in another 50 years. Forestalling such a bankruptcy was going to require drastic cuts in future benefits. Trying to expand Prosticare to cover everyone would have forced such cuts to take place today, and no politician wanted to risk a confrontation with senior citizens. So although politicians talked a lot about universal single-payer prostitution coverage, they never seriously proposed enacting it.

The American public had grown accustomed to enjoying unlimited access to the services of prostitutes. They continued to be averse to paying directly for sex, and they had become increasingly insulated from having to do so. As a result, America's share of GDP going to prostitution, already the highest in the world, rose rapidly.

A few economists argued that Americans ought to try to get over their discomfort with paying for sex. The economists proposed that Americans pay for prostitution with their own money, in which case they would be less likely to obtain unnecessary services. In addition, consumers would pay more attention to cost, which would force prostitutes to lower their prices in order to avoid losing business.

Most people, particularly prostitutes, were outraged by the economist's suggestions. The idea of paying for sex was too offensive to contemplate. So the existing prostitution insurance system kept stumbling along.

Cordially,
Rush

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Message 599253 - Posted: 5 Jul 2007, 21:20:28 UTC - in response to Message 599240.  

Humor can illustrate so well...

Deja Vu... ;)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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Message 599255 - Posted: 5 Jul 2007, 21:23:21 UTC
Last modified: 5 Jul 2007, 21:25:16 UTC

In my opinion health care should be available for everyone, and not only a rationed kind of so-called "basic health care" - because this is just a little more than first-aid! IMHO a rich land like the USA, (with approximately $114,384 per household) simply can't afford such a poor health care system. If every person - both, natural and legal persons - paid just 2% of their income into one big national health care insurance, no-one would have to suffer from poor medical treatment!
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Message 599268 - Posted: 5 Jul 2007, 21:35:04 UTC - in response to Message 599237.  

I do not own a cell phone.
I do have a color TV, 13", purchased around Christmas 1997.
Shall I go on?

Since you seemed to have missed the point entirely, that's up to you.

Oh, and if I could not get bread or something similar, would I be posting right now?

Maybe try substitution here. Maybe your computer would work in place of mobile phone in the example? Maybe the leisure time you have to post here would work as well, given that you don't have to spend every waking moment scraping to buy some (really really really cheap) bread?


Humor can illustrate so well...
Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.
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Message 599276 - Posted: 5 Jul 2007, 21:47:48 UTC - in response to Message 599225.  

Anyone ever notice how even the drastically poor in both the UK and the US can afford mobile phones

This reminds me of an episode of a 'peoples court' type show where the judge asked himself a question out loud:

'What is wrong with this country? You don't have a job, you pay your rent with food stamps, yet the phone company determines that you qualify for five lines.'

Yes judge... I ask the same question: WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS COUNTRY?

We don't have jobs...
We can't pay our rent...
And companies are still getting rich off of us... ;)
It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .
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Message boards : Politics : Michael Moore's: Sicko


 
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