BIG SNIP.. Sorry :)

You know if you look at the 'experienced' crime statistics (not people in prison but the reports of crime) the greatest changes in the UK happen near to major political changes not any changes in gun or other law.

Crime levels as reported by our communities are now as low as they were 25 years ago though they did peak at the end of the last conservative / start of this labour governments rule.

It is also well known that the spin and glitz of our current rulers results in heavily massaged figures, including crime figures, which then favour them to the extent they look good.

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. The statistics I refered to are from a long term UK trends survey of what people in the community felt they had suffered as crime. (Not from the police or court or prison records..)

They do not relate to what the government or police want to project.

Obviously all statistics are still questionable but I think these are quite interesting:

* ALL CRIME - British Crime Survey data

I won't add any more as I think I made my point and if not then here are my basic points:

I know all our cultures are different.
I want extreme restrictions on guns especially for bad or stupid people.
I would rather be chased with a knife than shot at with a bullet.
I understand if you have a gun pointing at you you have but one chance.. 'Survive anyway you can.'

I guess I am anti-owning a gun without a damn good cause.

. . . wanna *c* mi 'sniper' ;O

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BOINC Wiki . . .

Science Status Page . . .

I have a .357 Magnum Smith and Wesson, a 45 ACP and KK 22 sport pistol.

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With each crime and every kindness we birth our future.

. . . wanna go on a little sprEE ;OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

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BOINC Wiki . . .

Science Status Page . . .

Gun ownership is a matter of where you live.

In modern great counties: NO
In the outback: YES

Protect people, this is the job of the police or the army.

In reality, that is the second line of defense. Once, you are dead
the only thing left to the police is a homicide investigation.

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Let me make stance on the issue clear (horsewhip, my butt).
I am a life member of the NRA, and staunchly defend every legal US citizen's right to own a LEGAL weapon for hunting or self defense.
I do not happen to own a firearm of any kind right now, but the above still stands.
The saying "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" is not just a bumper sticker but a hard truth, borne out by statistics in regions that have banned gun ownership by law abiding citizens.
I do not believe that owning a gun is a 'liscence to kill', and if faced with the threat of some bloke busting into my house and threatening my life, my first attempt if the situation allowed it, would be to shoot below the waist to disable the SOB rather than to try to kill them outright.
I also forget at times, that when I post on these boards I am not just expressing my views to just US citizens, but people from all walks of life and many different countries, with significantly different laws and customs involved. I am expressing my opinion as a US citizen, in regard to the laws in this country.
So...... please do not be offended if the discussion is rendered moot by the laws where you reside.

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"Freedom is just Chaos, with better lighting." Alan Dean Foster

I do not believe that owning a gun is a 'liscence to kill', and if faced with the threat of some bloke busting into my house and threatening my life, my first attempt if the situation allowed it, would be to shoot below the waist to disable the SOB rather than to try to kill them outright.

Wrong! It is assumed that if you have reasonable cause to believe that your life is in mortal danger, you must shoot to kill. Discharging any firearm is considered a deadly act...a none lethal shot will only piss them off more. You can not shot over their head...why? Where is the bullet going to land, in a neighbors bedroom? If your life is in danger, legally the only shot you can take is a mortal one. It's not like the movies...a mortal shot does not always kill instantly and your intruder/attacker can still come at you. So unless you make a good head shot, it will usually take a few rounds, and once they go down you must stop firing since they no longer present an imminent danger to your person. If your intruder turns around to flee you must immediately cease firing, since again, your life is now no longer in danger...you can't chase them.

That's why I don't use my handgun for home defense, but rather a shotgun, which is first time every time. (the force alone will drive them back 5 meters leaving a 15cm+ hole right thru them)

One other thing, a dead man can't sue you, his/her family might, but he can't...and under the circumstances of home invasion, that tort will be throw out of court faster than the criminal expired.

BTW...where I live we have very strict laws on gun registration which the NRA abhores. You just can't sell a handgun to somebody and get a bill of sale...here both the buyer and the seller must go to a police station to make a legal transfer of ownership.

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Or get a trained wolf to roam the yard...

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Scorpions - Wind Of Change

Or get a trained wolf to roam the yard...

...and if a child should wander onto your property?

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loaded and unlocked 9mm Makarov pistol...

That's what I have (or one of what I have), but I swear it wasn't me pointing it at you Thorin.

We have a local afternoon talk show that about once a month has a call-in show called "What are you packing". People call in and tell over the radio what types of guns they carry.

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Calm Chaos Forum...Join Calm Chaos Now

Glock 23

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I do not believe that owning a gun is a 'liscence to kill'.... snip...

Wrong! It is assumed that if you have reasonable cause to believe that your life is in mortal danger, you must shoot to kill. Discharging any firearm is considered a deadly act...a none lethal shot will only piss them off more. ...... snip...

This make absolute sense. Any attacker has already had 30 or so minutes for their adrenalin and blood to get pumping so are probably hyped up and working overtime to start with.

..and unless they are a seriously depressed or druged out attacker "they WILL want to live just as much as you do" and will do anything to survive when in mortal danger including shooting back if they still can however badly wounded.

Shoot to totally take the person down is the only real option when the stakes get that high.

:(

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...not quite, but

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L
O
L
!
!
!

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Scorpions - Wind Of Change

Protect people, this is the job of the police or the army.

Sorry, just gotta comment on this one.

The police are not there to protect you 24/7. As DB stated, by the time its all said and done with, all they have left is to investigate a homicide. My life, my families life, those are the 2 most important things in my life. I will do what it takes to protect myself and my family, no matter what the cost. Since I live in the same state as Dennis, just an 8 hour drive north, we have the same state laws, and fortunately, Nevada is pretty decent when it comes to determining weather it was a justifiable homicide or not.

I pray that I never have to use my firearm to take the life of another, but, I will not hesitate to do so if my family and my life is in danger.

And DB, lots of gun registration tried to get passed to get rid of that ridiculous law with registering handguns down there, but it got "shot" down. I keep up to date on a website called packing.org Its very informative, and this years legistlative stuff was put on there regarding firearm laws that got pushed through.

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Protect people, this is the job of the police or the army.

Sorry, just gotta comment on this one.

The police are not there to protect you 24/7. As DB stated, by the time its all said and done with, all they have left is to investigate a homicide. My life, my families life, those are the 2 most important things in my life. I will do what it takes to protect myself and my family, no matter what the cost. Since I live in the same state as Dennis, just an 8 hour drive north, we have the same state laws, and fortunately, Nevada is pretty decent when it comes to determining weather it was a justifiable homicide or not.

I pray that I never have to use my firearm to take the life of another, but, I will not hesitate to do so if my family and my life is in danger.

And DB, lots of gun registration tried to get passed to get rid of that ridiculous law with registering handguns down there, but it got "shot" down. I keep up to date on a website called packing.org Its very informative, and this years legistlative stuff was put on there regarding firearm laws that got pushed through.

As i said:

In the outback: YES

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I have no real problem with people that do carry...as long as they are responsible with it.

That's been my opinion all along. The real problems come from the people that aren't responsible with them.

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Watch it i got a spoon!!and im afraid to use it!!!

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Scorpions - Wind Of Change

wait dat didn't come out right...

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Scorpions - Wind Of Change