The Outsider's Inside View post#015 - interesting and significant

Thanks for the Post Kevin - great Workshop SIR!!!
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Enjoy Your Weekend Sir and a BIG HAPPY BIRTHDAY to Your Son . . .

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hello..gang....:-)

I disagree with the guest speaker's assertion of what is and isn't, and would and wouldn't be, "significant" in astronomical discoveries.

Discovering life would be no more significant than many other astronomical/cosmological discoveries. Probably the most likely sign of life will be spectrographic discovery of oxygen in the atmosphere of an Earth-sized planet in an Earth-like orbit around a Sun-like star. Now be honest, how will the media and public at large treat this in comparison with, say, Paris Hilton's latest escapade?

But even the discovery of intelligent life (the "I" in "SETI") still won't be any more significant than the Big Bang, other galaxies, black holes, etc etc (though obviously extremely interesting). The only way it would have the same magnitude of significance as a doomsday meteor is if we can learn more advanced technology from alien transmissions.

On the flip side, some truly significant (not just interesting) discoveries have been:
* Venus's atmosphere and surface hotter than Mercury's (significant because it shows what a runaway greenhouse effect could do);
* Any number of doomsday scenarios besides a killer asteroid;
* Red-shift and other relativistic effects (which need to be taken into account with modern technology, eg GPS);
* Dunno, any others?

I just realised something that would be hugely significant: discovering that extraterrestrial life does NOT exist.

This could happen if/when instruments and techniques are sensitive enough to detect signals, effects, oxygen and other life by-products, etc to very large distances, and be able to determine all of their sources.

I disagree with the guest speaker's assertion of what is and isn't, and would and wouldn't be, "significant" in astronomical discoveries.

Right, but keep in mind we're talking about things that would make it into the newspaper. Significant means it affects a large fraction of humanity, whereas interesting means it's something that people might talk about for a week or so. By that (perhaps narrow) definition, most astronomical discoveries fall squarely in the interesting category. Take the supernova that was reported this past week. It's a very significant key in understanding the evolution of very massive stars, but whom outside of a few dozen scientists is this going to affect profoundly?

Discovering life would be no more significant than many other astronomical/cosmological discoveries. Probably the most likely sign of life will be spectrographic discovery of oxygen in the atmosphere of an Earth-sized planet in an Earth-like orbit around a Sun-like star. Now be honest, how will the media and public at large treat this in comparison with, say, Paris Hilton's latest escapade?

The media will foul it up, like they do most things they don't understand. But the public at large would probably have a diverse range of reactions. One could write volumes on the impact such a discovery would have on most major religions.

But even the discovery of intelligent life (the "I" in "SETI") still won't be any more significant than the Big Bang, other galaxies, black holes, etc etc (though obviously extremely interesting). The only way it would have the same magnitude of significance as a doomsday meteor is if we can learn more advanced technology from alien transmissions.

I disagree. The other discoveries you mention (above and below) are highly significant in terms of scientific value, in understanding how the universe works. But a positive SETI result would transcend science and truly alter our understanding of our place in the universe.

On the flip side, some truly significant (not just interesting) discoveries have been:
* Venus's atmosphere and surface hotter than Mercury's (significant because it shows what a runaway greenhouse effect could do);
* Any number of doomsday scenarios besides a killer asteroid;
* Red-shift and other relativistic effects (which need to be taken into account with modern technology, eg GPS);
* Dunno, any others?

Yeah thanks for the discussion, it's certainly thought-provoking. I've spent quite a bit of time thinking about it, and I've changed my mind somewhat. A positive SETI result could and should be significant (not just interesting), because it should spur many, many more people to devote much more resources to examining the intelligent signals and gleaning as much information as possible about the culture they came from. And of course searches elsewhere will also be hugely stepped up because if one source is found, surely there will be others. So perhaps I was a little too quickly dismissive of humanity's reaction to the discovery of intelligent ET life.

I didn't say anything about religion in my earlier posts, and was wondering if someone would bring it up. I don't think any religions will be affected either way. Religion has been most impacted by rational, critical thought, the rejection of dogma, and improved human rights in general. Not scientific discoveries. If people can keep believing religions after the body-blow of evolution, I'm sure they'll take the discovery of alien intelligence well in stride.

Finally, I still think that the non-discovery of alien intelligent life will have a much more profound effect on the way we view our place in the universe than if we do discover intelligent signals. But this will only become important when we are convinced that our detection techniques are good enough to find anything that's out there, which I'm sure is still a long way away.