Earthlike planet discovered - Gliese 581c

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Profile Seth
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Message 553762 - Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 1:10:16 UTC - in response to Message 553637.  

I agree that it's a great discovery, but: The planet has a "gravity lock-in" (hope I got the words right), i.e. it's not turning around its own axis, and thus it's always showing the same side to the star (like our moon is always showing the same side to our Earth).

As a result of this, temperature on the one side is extremely hot, temperature on the other side extremely low => probably no life possible on this planet.



There have been some studies done showing with a decent atmosphere it could moderate the temperature also the thought of life around a red dwarf star is not as far fetched as has been in the past.

At this time we can only speculate on this world as we have no way to analyze the atmosphere or get any pictures, maybe some day we will.
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Message 553881 - Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 3:50:37 UTC
Last modified: 26 Apr 2007, 3:57:39 UTC

Will SETI look at Gliese 581 C?

Its a newly found rocky planet that has the potential to harbor life according to the following article:
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/070424_hab_exoplanet.html

On the space.com message boards we were discussing how to find out more about it. Everything from a probe to giant mirrors were suggested. Then someone asked if someone would read radio waves from it.

(Sorry, did not notice that this thread had been started. Did a search on Gliese and this thread did not come up for me)
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Message 553896 - Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 4:01:18 UTC - in response to Message 553739.  

I agree that it's a great discovery, but: The planet has a "gravity lock-in" (hope I got the words right), i.e. it's not turning around its own axis, and thus it's always showing the same side to the star (like our moon is always showing the same side to our Earth).

As a result of this, temperature on the one side is extremely hot, temperature on the other side extremely low => probably no life possible on this planet.




interesting - then again, there's the geographical gray zone between both extremes - since the planet's alignment is constant, perhaps Earth-like life could have evolved in these middle-regions...





I did see a documentary on that where a model of a planet was mapped, and its weather pattern. In the middle of the sunny side was a perpetual hurricane, but he outer rims of the sunny side were quite normal temparatures, similar to Earth.

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Message 553978 - Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 5:13:09 UTC
Last modified: 26 Apr 2007, 5:58:17 UTC

Can anybody calculate what a unit weight difference between earth and G581?

From some other discussion I found 1.25 and/or 2.2 which one is true?! (100kg on earth weighs 125kg on g581)


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Message 553988 - Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 5:27:40 UTC - in response to Message 553637.  
Last modified: 26 Apr 2007, 5:32:44 UTC

I agree that it's a great discovery, but: The planet has a "gravity lock-in" (hope I got the words right), i.e. it's not turning around its own axis, and thus it's always showing the same side to the star (like our moon is always showing the same side to our Earth).

As a result of this, temperature on the one side is extremely hot, temperature on the other side extremely low => probably no life possible on this planet.


As other have said, there was a documentary on one of the Science channels which showed 2 hypothetical alien planets, one was a moon of a large gas giant and another was a planet much like this, orbiting a red dwarf star.

They think now that one side will be frozen in ice, and the other side will have a gigantic hurricane, sitting in one place forever. Between these two extrmes would be a temperate belt, one eternal afternoon.

It depicted, in stunning computer animation, hypothetical creatures that might live here: gigantic animals that looked like trees and feed on sunlight, the goofy dino/birdlike creatures with buck-teeth, the deadly micro-pihranna, and these cute little six-legged amphibians. I believe it was called simply "Extraterrestrial".

Yes, this is definitely a place worth investigating further.
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Message 553991 - Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 5:39:36 UTC

You can find some clips of that show here: http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/extraterrestrial/index.html
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Message 554034 - Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 6:58:17 UTC - in response to Message 553544.  

Hubble doesn't have the resolving power necessary to image planets at interstellar distances no matter how long the exposure.


I was thinking more along the lines of detailed spectral analysis, atmospheric 'signatures', etc (or whatever it is that astronomers and other scientists like doing).

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Message 554108 - Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 9:47:57 UTC - in response to Message 554034.  

Hubble doesn't have the resolving power necessary to image planets at interstellar distances no matter how long the exposure.


I was thinking more along the lines of detailed spectral analysis, atmospheric 'signatures', etc (or whatever it is that astronomers and other scientists like doing).


No it doesn't, but we can give it that power. Voyager is beyond our solar system and is still going very strong.
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Message 554127 - Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 10:43:38 UTC - in response to Message 553881.  
Last modified: 26 Apr 2007, 10:53:18 UTC

Will SETI look at Gliese 581 C?

Its a newly found rocky planet that has the potential to harbor life according to the following article:
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/070424_hab_exoplanet.html

On the space.com message boards we were discussing how to find out more about it. Everything from a probe to giant mirrors were suggested. Then someone asked if someone would read radio waves from it.

(Sorry, did not notice that this thread had been started. Did a search on Gliese and this thread did not come up for me)



They have and found nothing which is not surprising considering this star is only around 2 or so billion years old going on the development of earth life if there is anything there it`s probably just plants and simple animals at most.

Also I believe the planets life friendly surface facing its sun would not be in a ideal spot for much radio signals to reach here.
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Message 554131 - Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 10:49:02 UTC - in response to Message 554127.  
Last modified: 26 Apr 2007, 10:49:16 UTC

Will SETI look at Gliese 581 C?

Its a newly found rocky planet that has the potential to harbor life according to the following article:
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/070424_hab_exoplanet.html

On the space.com message boards we were discussing how to find out more about it. Everything from a probe to giant mirrors were suggested. Then someone asked if someone would read radio waves from it.

(Sorry, did not notice that this thread had been started. Did a search on Gliese and this thread did not come up for me)



They have and found nothing which is not surprising considering this star is only around 2 or so billion years old going on the development of earth life if there is anything there it`s probably just plants and simple animals at most.

Also I believe the planets life friendly surface facing its sun would not be in a ideal spot for much radion signals to reach here.


Interesting thing about plants.
"By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible". Hebrews 11.3

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Message 554276 - Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 19:32:26 UTC

Maybe if there were any aliens on the planet at Gliese and the gravity of that planet were greater than that of Earth those aliens would be smaller than we to compensate. Sorta like those big whales being buoyed by the sea.
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Message 554306 - Posted: 26 Apr 2007, 20:24:51 UTC

why's it called Gilese 581?
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Message 554619 - Posted: 27 Apr 2007, 4:28:10 UTC - in response to Message 554306.  
Last modified: 27 Apr 2007, 4:28:56 UTC

why's it called Gilese 581?


hell if I know.
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Message 554917 - Posted: 27 Apr 2007, 19:50:28 UTC

Probably some guy named Gliese named a bunch of stars, etc, after himself and the one in question was the 581st Gliese star. The "c" probably means the third component of a multiple (gravitybound) star system, all of whose components are named "Gliese 581". There are plenty of multiple stars.
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Message 554923 - Posted: 27 Apr 2007, 20:02:01 UTC - in response to Message 554917.  
Last modified: 27 Apr 2007, 20:02:21 UTC

Probably some guy named Gliese named a bunch of stars, etc, after himself and the one in question was the 581st Gliese star. The "c" probably means the third component of a multiple (gravitybound) star system, all of whose components are named "Gliese 581". There are plenty of multiple stars.


From Wikipedia:
The name Gliese 581 refers to the Star catalogue of nearby stars by Wilhelm Gliese. Other names of this star include BD-07° 4003 (BD catalogue, first known publication) and HO Librae (variable star designation). It does not have an individual name such as Sirius or Procyon.

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Message 554977 - Posted: 27 Apr 2007, 21:05:29 UTC - in response to Message 553637.  
Last modified: 27 Apr 2007, 21:06:52 UTC

I agree that it's a great discovery, but: The planet has a "gravity lock-in" (hope I got the words right), i.e. it's not turning around its own axis, and thus it's always showing the same side to the star (like our moon is always showing the same side to our Earth).

As a result of this, temperature on the one side is extremely hot, temperature on the other side extremely low => probably no life possible on this planet.


how were they able to tell that it wasn't rotating? i thought it took a radar to tell if it was rotating and that couldn't have happened yet cos it takes 20.5 years for the radar to get there then 20.5 years for the signal to get back to us. it wouldn't be possible to detect rotation from gravitational studies plus for it to keep one side towards the star at all times it would need to be spinning damn fast because it orbits its star once every 13 days 8O

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Message 554985 - Posted: 27 Apr 2007, 21:11:29 UTC - in response to Message 554977.  

[snip] plus for it to keep one side towards the star at all times it would need to be spinning damn fast because it orbits its star once every 13 days 8O

That's not that fast. That would be one rotation every 13 days. Earth does it 13x faster at 1 per day. Jupiter rotates once every 10 hours.
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Message 554998 - Posted: 27 Apr 2007, 21:30:55 UTC - in response to Message 554985.  
Last modified: 27 Apr 2007, 21:52:17 UTC

[snip] plus for it to keep one side towards the star at all times it would need to be spinning damn fast because it orbits its star once every 13 days 8O

That's not that fast. That would be one rotation every 13 days. Earth does it 13x faster at 1 per day. Jupiter rotates once every 10 hours.


Hmmm, try this:
Gliese 581c day / night = infinite? (is it constantly facing inwards like our moon? or does it stay facing in one direction making 1 day = 1 year? (13 earth days) )
Gliese 581c year = 13 earth days ? sounds quick but need some maths

581c is about ( they reckon) 1/14th distance from its star, than Earth is from the Sun:
Earth year = 365.25 days,
so 1/14th 365.25 days is ~26.1 days, therefore Gliese 581c ( at 13 day orbit /year) is only orbiting its star around twice as fast as we orbit the Sun.

[Edit: this might be because the star is smaller than the Sun, or else it should orbit much faster , closer in like that... trying the spinning weight on a string thing .... yep should be much more than twice as fast if the star exerted same gravity as our Sun, must be a lot smaller ]
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Message 555035 - Posted: 27 Apr 2007, 22:52:48 UTC - in response to Message 554998.  

Heh, I was addressing the speed of planetary rotation, not orbit. :)

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Message 555043 - Posted: 27 Apr 2007, 23:00:55 UTC - in response to Message 555035.  
Last modified: 27 Apr 2007, 23:08:12 UTC

Heh, I was addressing the speed of planetary rotation, not orbit. :)


I've been looking to see where I read it may not be rotating, can't find it now :(

[EDIT oh here 'tis in the wiki article climate section ( tidally locked ), how they'd figure that I don't know]
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