BOINC in a corporate environment


log in

Advanced search

Message boards : Cafe SETI : BOINC in a corporate environment

Author Message
Profile LLS71
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 12 Jun 00
Posts: 8
Credit: 83,088
RAC: 63
Austria
Message 22520 - Posted: 5 Sep 2004, 7:14:35 UTC
Last modified: 5 Sep 2004, 7:15:53 UTC

Hi!

I know you SETI folks are busy with hardware troubles and so on. Nevertheless I would like to know, if there will be a "silent" version for the corporate environment. I want to install the client on some 100 PCs, but users shouldn't see anything of the running BOINC client (just the Task in Task-Manager). Another important point in a corporate network is security. We have a firewall and a content-scanning webproxy, and the client wouldn't be able to communicate directly to the servers. Will there be a proxy, as is available for classic SETI@home?

Thanks in advance!

Bye, Leo

Alex
Send message
Joined: 26 Sep 01
Posts: 260
Credit: 2,327
RAC: 0
Canada
Message 22719 - Posted: 5 Sep 2004, 18:22:37 UTC - in response to Message 22520.

A pc that is 'crunching all the time' is also having it's fans on all the time, and running at a higher temperature.

So, over a 100 machine install, someone WILL notice something different about their pc, and there's a chance that a couple of those boxes will overheat.

If it's not your machine, then ask permission.
As for the content monitors, they'd notice 100 machines connecting to the same web site, and if they looked into those packets... they'd likely find the email addy or seti account number of the person who did the 100 installs.


Profile Petit Soleil
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Feb 03
Posts: 1497
Credit: 46,577
RAC: 0
Canada
Message 22747 - Posted: 5 Sep 2004, 19:31:54 UTC
Last modified: 5 Sep 2004, 19:33:08 UTC

Someone want's to be a rock star having big numers at SETI secretely using others PC ? There is not enough work for those extra 100 PCs anyway.

Profile Sir Ulli
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 21 Oct 99
Posts: 2246
Credit: 6,114,302
RAC: 419
Germany
Message 22761 - Posted: 5 Sep 2004, 19:49:44 UTC
Last modified: 5 Sep 2004, 19:50:52 UTC

There are a lot of tricks, like at SAH Classic, running BOINC as a Service, and rename this Service to Idle-Time :)

Greetings from Germany NRW
Ulli [/url]


Ranger
Send message
Joined: 27 Dec 00
Posts: 49
Credit: 39,209,855
RAC: 6,008
United States
Message 22804 - Posted: 5 Sep 2004, 21:05:10 UTC - in response to Message 22761.

> There are a lot of tricks, like at SAH Classic, running BOINC as a Service,
> and rename this Service to Idle-Time :)
>
> Greetings from Germany NRW
> Ulli </FONT>

Profile Sir Ulli
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 21 Oct 99
Posts: 2246
Credit: 6,114,302
RAC: 419
Germany
Message 22811 - Posted: 5 Sep 2004, 21:19:51 UTC

>Sir Ulli, you are encouraging this person to possibly violate Rule #1 [http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/info.php]:

yes you are right

@Schieder, Leonardo

please use only the Computers you have permission to this

Rules and Policies

Run SETI@home only on authorized computers

Run SETI@home only on computers that you own, or for which you have obtained the owner's permission. Some companies and schools have policies that prohibit using their computers for projects such as SETI@home.

S@h Berkeley's Staff Friends Club ©

Greetings from Germany NRW
Ulli [/url]


mrpcguy
Send message
Joined: 16 Dec 01
Posts: 21
Credit: 33,771
RAC: 0
Sweden
Message 22901 - Posted: 6 Sep 2004, 5:57:27 UTC

run S@H at 100pc... secretly?? lol gl...
na that prolly not a good idea, ask the supervisor for permission is. Mb he/she is a trekkie or something so he/she likes this kinda thing.

Profile LLS71
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 12 Jun 00
Posts: 8
Credit: 83,088
RAC: 63
Austria
Message 22936 - Posted: 6 Sep 2004, 11:45:46 UTC - in response to Message 22901.

Hi!

No, I'm not trying to run BOINC without permission of the users. I'm the administrator/supervisor of this corporate network (and the firewall and the webproxy!), and would like seeing the PCs in the company DOING something, not just WASTING electricity and computing time while users let them run the whole day... I have the permission to do it because my boss told me it's OK. I just DON'T want users to get BOINC messages on the screen and all calling *ME* because "there is a strange program on my screen". I would set BOINC to run when the computer has being idle for 2 minutes (or something like that).

I just wanted some help HOW-TO make BOINC run in such an environment. For example getting the run-as-service version, getting the URLs the client tries to reach, and so on. This way I could create a webproxy scenario that would let the BOINC client get the data from the internet and upload the results.
As of the "overheating" thing, we have quality PCs, not overclocked, just doing nothing all the time (just look how much time the "idle task" ist consuming, that could be project time for BOINC)...

It's not like "Petit Soleil" wrote about me trying to be a rock star, in fact I'm a little bit annoyed about everybody writing about "without permission", or that "there is not enough work for 100 PCs" and so on. I wanted some HELP to let the corporate PCs work for the many BOINC projects that are available or will start in the next months (SETI@home, ClimatePrediction.net, Einstein@home, Folding@home, Predictor@home, and so on).

Bye, Leo

Profile Petit Soleil
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 17 Feb 03
Posts: 1497
Credit: 46,577
RAC: 0
Canada
Message 22942 - Posted: 6 Sep 2004, 12:46:01 UTC - in response to Message 22936.
Last modified: 6 Sep 2004, 13:56:11 UTC

> It's not like "Petit Soleil" wrote about me trying to be a rock star, in fact
> I'm a little bit annoyed about everybody writing about "without permission",
> or that "there is not enough work for 100 PCs" and so on. I wanted some HELP
> to let the corporate PCs work for the many BOINC projects that are available
> or will start in the next months (SETI@home, ClimatePrediction.net,
> Einstein@home, Folding@home, Predictor@home, and so on).
>
> Bye, Leo

Hi leo,

Sorry for the rock star...Your original post sounded like you wanted to do it "secretly". I understand your demand now of not being called every 5 minutes by users for nothing.

Technicaly, being a corporate IT you shouldn't have too many problems setting up the whole thing. Just intall the client on every machine, I guess you could create a script and make a server install (I am not sure). If not you will have to go arround a do it manually. You can configure the proxy server on the setting menu of the GUI. No problem for the firewall, I don't know your setup there but basicaly boinc work well with firewall. You might just have to make a few authorisations on it and that's it. The web URL and the account ID will be the same as the one you have received by mail when you have created your account. To make it run as a service you need to install it normally first. Once it is installed quit boinc (or make sure it is not running) remove boinc from the startup folder (you had option to make it start at windows boot when you intalled it) Then open a dos prompt, cd to the boinc folder and type boinc_cli -install. All machines will run according to your account preferences (idle time, cache, etc) See with your boss, users might want to create their own BOINC account ???
This would be the best choice if you really don't want to be a rock star...

EDIT//
I suggest you take times to do some reading here before jumping on the install. The BOINC server is currently down (part of the services) for maintenance and There are many problems for users running on Win 98-Me. Hope it's not you case and that all hosts are using same OS.

Good luck
Friendly
Marc

-.-. --.- -.. -..- . - --... ...-- .-.-. -.-

Heffed
Volunteer tester
Send message
Joined: 19 Mar 02
Posts: 1856
Credit: 40,736
RAC: 0
United States
Message 23011 - Posted: 6 Sep 2004, 17:38:39 UTC - in response to Message 22936.

> It's not like "Petit Soleil" wrote about me trying to be a rock star, in fact
> I'm a little bit annoyed about everybody writing about "without permission",
> or that "there is not enough work for 100 PCs" and so on. I wanted some HELP
> to let the corporate PCs work for the many BOINC projects that are available
> or will start in the next months (SETI@home, ClimatePrediction.net,
> Einstein@home, Folding@home, Predictor@home, and so on).

That's the great thing about BOINC! The ability to run many different DC projects from a single application.

And about keeping 100 PCs in work, just attach to CPDN as well and you will never have that worry. :)

Profile LLS71
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 12 Jun 00
Posts: 8
Credit: 83,088
RAC: 63
Austria
Message 23028 - Posted: 6 Sep 2004, 19:15:36 UTC - in response to Message 22942.

Hi Marc!

> create a script and make a server install (I am not sure). If not you will
> have to go arround a do it manually. You can configure the proxy server on the
> setting menu of the GUI. No problem for the firewall, I don't know your setup

I think installing BOINC wouldn't be the problem, we use central application distribution, so I could install the app on a PC, make a snapshot of the configured BOINC, and ditribute it to all PCs in the network.

> there but basicaly boinc work well with firewall. You might just have to make
> a few authorisations on it and that's it. The web URL and the account ID will
> be the same as the one you have received by mail when you have created your

I'm not so sure about that. The BOINC client "calls" the scheduler on http://setiboinc.ssl.berkely.edu/sah_cgi/cgi, and the project-URL is http://setiathome.berkeley.edu (two different URLs). I would like to know if there are some more URLs the client is getting, to let the webproxy be a little bit less strict (for example, users are not allowed to get executables in our network) with these URLs. Another question about the proxy is the authentication, we use NTLM authentication, can BOINC handle that?

> I suggest you take times to do some reading here before jumping on the
> install. The BOINC server is currently down (part of the services) for
> maintenance and There are many problems for users running on Win 98-Me. Hope
> it's not you case and that all hosts are using same OS.

WinXP Pro on all PCs. Well, it's not like I will go tomorrow and start installing, I have a LOT of other work to do. But I want to get some information for planning an installation.

Thanks for help!

Bye, Leo

ric
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 16 Jun 03
Posts: 482
Credit: 666,047
RAC: 0
Switzerland
Message 23045 - Posted: 6 Sep 2004, 20:00:26 UTC - in response to Message 22520.
Last modified: 6 Sep 2004, 20:01:59 UTC

Leo

I would like to have this kind of problem you have!


-software delivery over login script, prerated xmls, or member of an aditional "testgroup" of running parts of the login script

Think about maintenance, before instalilng the 20th client, maintenance tasks can be needed from the first..

Take a very good mngt tool:

use a tool with "remote" (boinc)function for individual node settings


- attach/detach/reset/project from remote
- run mode settings /enable networks asscess from remote
- perhaps in future, enable/disable network access also from remote

Communication with the user : The day of "stupid" User is passed. The have to many access to to good informatons... even "hiding" as an service, one day one user will ask some "bad" question, not to you but to the mngt, he just must talk something about a virus and you take much time to recalm down and trust is gone.

"suggestion:" explain/make it transparent over a helppage or what else,
why running boinc, why not, whats the the cients behaviour while running (/getting hot, noise..traffic), and HOW can the user deactivate the cli, running as service or as cli.

This including of the user, can make friends and avoid "enemies"...

If the whole thing is demanding more than 5% of your business time,
forget/reduce it. It must be easy to install and easy to run/maintenace

any kind of project, you will perhaps never have all clients to "work"

perhaps wrong lined, but a least for seti@home, limitation to 50 Host per user and account...

I can give you my account..

ric

John McLeod VII
Volunteer developer
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 15 Jul 99
Posts: 24387
Credit: 519,750
RAC: 26
United States
Message 23133 - Posted: 7 Sep 2004, 4:30:24 UTC - in response to Message 23028.

> I'm not so sure about that. The BOINC client "calls" the scheduler on
> http://setiboinc.ssl.berkely.edu/sah_cgi/cgi, and the project-URL is
> http://setiathome.berkeley.edu (two different URLs). I would like to know if
> there are some more URLs the client is getting, to let the webproxy be a
> little bit less strict (for example, users are not allowed to get executables
> in our network) with these URLs. Another question about the proxy is the
> authentication, we use NTLM authentication, can BOINC handle that?

S@H is a special case. Unfortunately the preferred URL is already used for classic. So there are two, one for the Web page, and one for the connection. I believe that the other projects will probably have one. A complete list of the servers that will be contacted is in either the client_state.xml, or the account*.xml files.

Profile LLS71
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 12 Jun 00
Posts: 8
Credit: 83,088
RAC: 63
Austria
Message 23363 - Posted: 7 Sep 2004, 19:10:27 UTC - in response to Message 23045.
Last modified: 7 Sep 2004, 19:13:20 UTC

Hi Ric!

> Take a very good mngt tool:
>
> use a tool with "remote" (boinc)function for individual node settings
>
>
> - attach/detach/reset/project from remote
> - run mode settings /enable networks asscess from remote
> - perhaps in future, enable/disable network access also from remote

That's what I wanted to know. Perhaps somebody (or the BOINC-SETI team) is already working on a tool like that. For classic SETI@home there are many tools (like proxies, etc.).

> "suggestion:" explain/make it transparent over a helppage or what else,
> why running boinc, why not, whats the the cients behaviour while running
> (/getting hot, noise..traffic), and HOW can the user deactivate the cli,
> running as service or as cli.

That's not really the problem. I'm trying to get the technical facts needed to use BOINC in an corporate environment. Perhaps it's too much work, then I won't install it. But if there is the possibility and the needed tools for it, I think some more company supervisors would get their network PCs to work for BOINC projects!

> If the whole thing is demanding more than 5% of your business time,
> forget/reduce it. It must be easy to install and easy to run/maintenace

Yes, although if you are a real fan, this work wouldn't happen in "work time", but in "free time"... ;-)

Bye, Leo

Profile LLS71
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 12 Jun 00
Posts: 8
Credit: 83,088
RAC: 63
Austria
Message 23365 - Posted: 7 Sep 2004, 19:12:57 UTC - in response to Message 23133.

Hi John!

> S@H is a special case. Unfortunately the preferred URL is already used for
> classic. So there are two, one for the Web page, and one for the connection.
> I believe that the other projects will probably have one. A complete list of
> the servers that will be contacted is in either the client_state.xml, or the
> account*.xml files.

Thanks for information about those files. I edited them and found the URLs.

Bye, Leo

Profile bjacke
Volunteer tester
Avatar
Send message
Joined: 14 Apr 02
Posts: 346
Credit: 13,761
RAC: 0
Germany
Message 23367 - Posted: 7 Sep 2004, 19:14:39 UTC - in response to Message 22804.

> > There are a lot of tricks, like at SAH Classic, running BOINC as a
> Service,
> > and rename this Service to Idle-Time :)
> >
> > Greetings from Germany NRW
> > Ulli
The whole is more then the sum of its particles.
Aristoteles
Best wishes from Berlin(52°35'N,13°23'O), Basti
S@h Berkeley's Staff Friends Club © member

Message boards : Cafe SETI : BOINC in a corporate environment

Copyright © 2014 University of California