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Profile Geek@Play
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Message 526432 - Posted: 4 Mar 2007, 19:19:30 UTC

I was in particular wondering why they have to be SCSI instead of SATA? Seems to me the SATA drives are going to be around a lot longer than the few SCSI that are currently available. Just my thought on the subject.


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Message 526445 - Posted: 4 Mar 2007, 19:58:22 UTC - in response to Message 526396.

Micheal

These are direct replacements, for drives that are in Hardware RAID Arrays that connect to the Servers. The first thing is can a direct replacement be found... Then look for the best cost for a direct replacement...

I guess the best visual example would be from the last set of Pictures...



In the center is the NetApp Nas with "red lights" those models numbers are yet to be determined. On the left and right you will see various drive arrays that support upload/download and the science database...

Now the arrays are SCSI 160 I can buy older SCSI drives for about $38/each but that would only slow things down... We could point to newer faster SCSI 320's but those would be more expensive and not make a large enough performance difference to justify the cost...

@ Geek, they are using some SATA II drives and there is a need for those also... Those are ST3200820AS 200GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive for about $71/each and 6 to 8 of those are needed.

What is needed now are the drives for the kryten replacement which are the SCSI 73gig's 73GB 10K U160 80P 16MB ST373405LCV so at $75/each that hopefully fits someones budget...

I hope that answers some of the questions...

It is not that is bad hardware, just that hard drives die...
"When that is all you have to work with," it is all you have...

Why are we currently setting up a system for the Multibeam Workunits that uses drives types that are obsolete and hard to find now? What happens in 5 years and we now need drives that cannot be had for any price? What then??


If I may say so, I think the geek deserves a more responsive answer than that. A brief Search reveals that there are lots of *much* more expensive 73GB SCSI drives available. There are also lots available for about half the price, but they tend to have about a millisecond longer average seek time. I can make up reasons why this particular drive is specified, but I do not *know* why.

Why 73GB? Why 8? Does that include some as spares? Does SETI@home already have lots of these drives?

This is by no means a hostile response. I would really like to have a bit of "my" hardware contributing to our work and will buy one for you if you can provide sensible answers to good questions.


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Message 526529 - Posted: 4 Mar 2007, 21:14:02 UTC - in response to Message 526445.

These are direct replacements, for drives that are in Hardware RAID Arrays that connect to the Servers. The first thing is can a direct replacement be found... Then look for the best cost for a direct replacement...

Thanks, Pappa. You have email...

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Message 526937 - Posted: 5 Mar 2007, 20:41:49 UTC - in response to Message 526445.
Last modified: 5 Mar 2007, 21:24:36 UTC

Micheal

These are direct replacements, for drives that are in Hardware RAID Arrays that connect to the Servers. The first thing is can a direct replacement be found... Then look for the best cost for a direct replacement...

I guess the best visual example would be from the last set of Pictures...



In the center is the NetApp Nas with "red lights" those models numbers are yet to be determined. On the left and right you will see various drive arrays that support upload/download and the science database...

Now the arrays are SCSI 160 I can buy older SCSI drives for about $38/each but that would only slow things down... We could point to newer faster SCSI 320's but those would be more expensive and not make a large enough performance difference to justify the cost...

@ Geek, they are using some SATA II drives and there is a need for those also... Those are ST3200820AS 200GB 7200 RPM 8MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive for about $71/each and 6 to 8 of those are needed.

What is needed now are the drives for the kryten replacement which are the SCSI 73gig's 73GB 10K U160 80P 16MB ST373405LCV so at $75/each that hopefully fits someones budget...

I hope that answers some of the questions...

It is not that is bad hardware, just that hard drives die...
"When that is all you have to work with," it is all you have...

Why are we currently setting up a system for the Multibeam Workunits that uses drives types that are obsolete and hard to find now? What happens in 5 years and we now need drives that cannot be had for any price? What then??


If I may say so, I think the geek deserves a more responsive answer than that. A brief Search reveals that there are lots of *much* more expensive 73GB SCSI drives available. There are also lots available for about half the price, but they tend to have about a millisecond longer average seek time. I can make up reasons why this particular drive is specified, but I do not *know* why.

Why 73GB? Why 8? Does that include some as spares? Does SETI@home already have lots of these drives?

This is by no means a hostile response. I would really like to have a bit of "my" hardware contributing to our work and will buy one for you if you can provide sensible answers to good questions.


Check out this link on ebay for Krytens drives:
73GB 10K U160 80P 16MB ST373405LCV They are $75.00 each with 14.99[shipping for each drive](Requires Immediate Payment), He offers a "Best Offer" type of Buy It now and that can be lower of course than the initial $75.00 and the seller has 100 of these drives.
The Seller charges sales tax for items shipped to: IL (7.500%).


The auction is good for another 9 days, 3 hours and less than 23 minutes. :D

Edit:

SEAGATE 73GB 73 GB ST373405LCV HOT SWAPPABLE SCSI DRIVE for $60.00 they have 9 and they are said to be in Like New Condition "- GUARANTEED FOR 15 DAYS!!!" or used and they also have a Best Offer too, Shipping IS $10 FIRST DRIVE PLUS $3 EACH ADDITIONAL DRIVE ANYWHERE IN CONTINENTAL US.
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Message 526984 - Posted: 5 Mar 2007, 22:00:04 UTC - in response to Message 526529.
Last modified: 5 Mar 2007, 22:03:36 UTC

These are direct replacements, for drives that are in Hardware RAID Arrays that connect to the Servers. The first thing is can a direct replacement be found... Then look for the best cost for a direct replacement...

Thanks, Pappa. You have email...

I have just ordered one to be sent direct to Berkeley. Shipping was $8. The price from Hyper Micro looks pretty good and the condition is "new" - many other suppliers have "refurbished" drives. If you're ordering from the United States you can use their web page, otherwise you will need to phone them - they have a calm and competent phone service.

I'm sure that having one of "my" drives in the data processing setup will add to the fun of the project for me.

Edit: the offer that Batman found is also for "new" drives.




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Message 526985 - Posted: 5 Mar 2007, 22:05:16 UTC - in response to Message 526984.
Last modified: 5 Mar 2007, 22:10:03 UTC

These are direct replacements, for drives that are in Hardware RAID Arrays that connect to the Servers. The first thing is can a direct replacement be found... Then look for the best cost for a direct replacement...

Thanks, Pappa. You have email...

I have just ordered one to be sent direct to Berkeley. Shipping was $8. The price from Hyper Micro looks pretty good and the condition is "new" - many other suppliers have "refurbished" drives. If you're ordering from the United States you can use their web page, otherwise you will need to phone them - they have a calm and competent phone service.

I'm sure that having one of "my" drives in the data processing setup will add to the fun of the project for me.

Edit: the offer that Batman found is also for "new" drives.





The 1st Link I posted above Yours is from "hypermicrosystems" of course(New Drives in 1st link, 2nd link is Used drives). In the Next few months I may be able to buy one also, But I have Car insurance to pay for 1st($101 to GMAC), Then I could get a drive, I'd just need an address to send It to then. For the Moment I watch and wait.

Edit: This is the drive from the 2nd Link I provided:

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Message 527027 - Posted: 5 Mar 2007, 23:43:36 UTC - in response to Message 526985.

Batman

Thank You, I will repost to allow a bit of cleanup...

These are direct replacements, for drives that are in Hardware RAID Arrays that connect to the Servers. The first thing is can a direct replacement be found... Then look for the best cost for a direct replacement...

Thanks, Pappa. You have email...

I have just ordered one to be sent direct to Berkeley. Shipping was $8. The price from Hyper Micro looks pretty good and the condition is "new" - many other suppliers have "refurbished" drives. If you're ordering from the United States you can use their web page, otherwise you will need to phone them - they have a calm and competent phone service.

I'm sure that having one of "my" drives in the data processing setup will add to the fun of the project for me.

Edit: the offer that Batman found is also for "new" drives.





The 1st Link I posted above Yours is from "hypermicrosystems" of course(New Drives in 1st link, 2nd link is Used drives). In the Next few months I may be able to buy one also, But I have Car insurance to pay for 1st($101 to GMAC), Then I could get a drive, I'd just need an address to send It to then. For the Moment I watch and wait.

Edit: This is the drive from the 2nd Link I provided:


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Message 527028 - Posted: 5 Mar 2007, 23:45:25 UTC

We have a count of two... Thank You Michael for the one and Teamkiller for the other...

The one direct link to hypermicro
73GB 10K U160 80P 16MB ST373405LCV

The Links that Batman provided at eBay

Check out this link on ebay for Krytens drives:
73GB 10K U160 80P 16MB ST373405LCV They are $75.00 each with 14.99[shipping for each drive](Requires Immediate Payment), He offers a "Best Offer" type of Buy It now and that can be lower of course than the initial $75.00 and the seller has 100 of these drives.
The Seller charges sales tax for items shipped to: IL (7.500%).


The auction is good for another 9 days, 3 hours and less than 23 minutes. :D

Used:

SEAGATE 73GB 73 GB ST373405LCV HOT SWAPPABLE SCSI DRIVE for $60.00 they have 9 and they are said to be in Like New Condition "- GUARANTEED FOR 15 DAYS!!!" or used and they also have a Best Offer too, Shipping IS $10 FIRST DRIVE PLUS $3 EACH ADDITIONAL DRIVE ANYWHERE IN CONTINENTAL US. [/quote]


without wanting to sound overbearing, if you have something and needed to see about getting shipped Eric... Please take a moment to email me and I will get you the shipping address and let Eric know things are on there way... He also gets a copy of what is happening so that he knows when to walk down to the loadig dock...

al.setiboinc (at) gmail.com


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Message 527949 - Posted: 8 Mar 2007, 5:58:58 UTC - in response to Message 527027.

Papa: Could you post the addy of Seti@home shipping dock?
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Message 528296 - Posted: 9 Mar 2007, 0:37:13 UTC - in response to Message 510453.

We don't get western digital drives at this point. Eric should check me on this, but I believe he discovered a major firmware bug on those drives which cause data corruption when doing large-scale memory mapping to files on linux systems, and as far as we know this hasn't been corrected yet. So not very useful with large-scale databases like ours.

- Matt



In the April 2007 issue of "Maximum PC" magazine, page 19, there is info that a firmware update is now available for the Western Digital "YS" models to fix the RAID dropouts. Go to www.westerndigital.com, click Support, search knowledgebase for WD5000YS, answer ID Item 1493, will give more info on the issue and a link to the firmware update. Maybe this will cure the problem you speak of.

Cheers - Whit

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Message 528304 - Posted: 9 Mar 2007, 0:59:04 UTC - in response to Message 527949.

Hofman's Atlantic

Sorry for the delay

I actually called Eric and asked, currently he would still appreciate "not publicly" posting the shipping address. You are welcome to email Eric whose email address is:
korpela (at) ssl.berkeley.edu just - replace the (at) with the "Shift Number 2" on the keyboard.
Unfortunately it has been heavily SPAMMED and he has a filter in place that you have to respond to in order to get through. It can be done! It takes a bit of time...

The other alternative is if you email me and say you want to ship "this item" I will reply with a copy to Eric and give you the email address... It also gives Eric the chance to reply without the spam filter headaches...

My public email address is al.setiboinc (at) gmail.com

Papa: Could you post the addy of Seti@home shipping dock?


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Message 528717 - Posted: 9 Mar 2007, 21:37:29 UTC - in response to Message 517119.
Last modified: 9 Mar 2007, 21:52:38 UTC

I would have recommended Maxtor; however, as Seagate has taken over Maxtor recently, I am hesitant to make such a recommendation. In my experience, and from friends' and colleagues' experiences with Seagate Drives - they tend to fail early and have even greater Dead In Box issues. I myself have had many such experiences in the past, and this has left a very VERY bad taste in my mouth pertaining to Seagate.


No, no, no! Maxtor is probably the only brand that should be totally avoided. I bought an quality-Maxtor HDD a year ago and I sent it back to the shop a week ago, because there were bad sectors and bad S.M.A.R.T.-values. Maybe Seagate will make Maxtor a somewhat better in the future, but I would not count on it. Please, do yourselves a favour and do not buy Maxtor HDDs.
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Message 531341 - Posted: 14 Mar 2007, 21:30:11 UTC - in response to Message 527028.
Last modified: 14 Mar 2007, 21:32:24 UTC

How many of these do you still need? Would you rather NEW or USED? thanks

We have a count of two... Thank You Michael for the one and Teamkiller for the other...

The one direct link to hypermicro
73GB 10K U160 80P 16MB ST373405LCV

The Links that Batman provided at eBay

Check out this link on ebay for Krytens drives:
73GB 10K U160 80P 16MB ST373405LCV They are $75.00 each with 14.99[shipping for each drive](Requires Immediate Payment), He offers a "Best Offer" type of Buy It now and that can be lower of course than the initial $75.00 and the seller has 100 of these drives.
The Seller charges sales tax for items shipped to: IL (7.500%).


The auction is good for another 9 days, 3 hours and less than 23 minutes. :D

Used:

SEAGATE 73GB 73 GB ST373405LCV HOT SWAPPABLE SCSI DRIVE for $60.00 they have 9 and they are said to be in Like New Condition "- GUARANTEED FOR 15 DAYS!!!" or used and they also have a Best Offer too, Shipping IS $10 FIRST DRIVE PLUS $3 EACH ADDITIONAL DRIVE ANYWHERE IN CONTINENTAL US.



without wanting to sound overbearing, if you have something and needed to see about getting shipped Eric... Please take a moment to email me and I will get you the shipping address and let Eric know things are on there way... He also gets a copy of what is happening so that he knows when to walk down to the loadig dock...

al.setiboinc (at) gmail.com

[/quote]

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Message 531356 - Posted: 14 Mar 2007, 22:01:45 UTC - in response to Message 531341.

Paul

We are down to two of those... If they are new, then they have full warrenty.

I am still looking to find the Fiberchannel drives Those will be between 6-8

Thank You


How many of these do you still need? Would you rather NEW or USED? thanks

We have a count of two... Thank You Michael for the one and Teamkiller for the other...

The one direct link to hypermicro
73GB 10K U160 80P 16MB ST373405LCV

The Links that Batman provided at eBay

Check out this link on ebay for Krytens drives:
73GB 10K U160 80P 16MB ST373405LCV They are $75.00 each with 14.99[shipping for each drive](Requires Immediate Payment), He offers a "Best Offer" type of Buy It now and that can be lower of course than the initial $75.00 and the seller has 100 of these drives.
The Seller charges sales tax for items shipped to: IL (7.500%).


The auction is good for another 9 days, 3 hours and less than 23 minutes. :D

Used:

SEAGATE 73GB 73 GB ST373405LCV HOT SWAPPABLE SCSI DRIVE for $60.00 they have 9 and they are said to be in Like New Condition "- GUARANTEED FOR 15 DAYS!!!" or used and they also have a Best Offer too, Shipping IS $10 FIRST DRIVE PLUS $3 EACH ADDITIONAL DRIVE ANYWHERE IN CONTINENTAL US.



without wanting to sound overbearing, if you have something and needed to see about getting shipped Eric... Please take a moment to email me and I will get you the shipping address and let Eric know things are on there way... He also gets a copy of what is happening so that he knows when to walk down to the loadig dock...

al.setiboinc (at) gmail.com


[/quote]

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Message 531701 - Posted: 15 Mar 2007, 15:12:32 UTC

I'm kinda waylaid at the moment for cash, but once I reclaim some money I've loaned the government for free, I plan on helping out with RAM or HDDs.

Sorry that I've been incommunicado for a while, things are heating up here at work.

Keep crunching folks!
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Message 531812 - Posted: 15 Mar 2007, 23:30:41 UTC - in response to Message 531701.

For the moment we are working through things... The fiber channel drives are causing a bit of a headache...

I'm kinda waylaid at the moment for cash, but once I reclaim some money I've loaned the government for free, I plan on helping out with RAM or HDDs.

Sorry that I've been incommunicado for a while, things are heating up here at work.

Keep crunching folks!


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Message 531829 - Posted: 15 Mar 2007, 23:46:48 UTC
Last modified: 15 Mar 2007, 23:48:28 UTC

I spoke with Eric briefly this morning...

The work to get Bruno ready to move into place is going slow... See Matt's Tech News entry Happy Ides (Mar 15 2007) states that the issue may be solved... Eric also mentioned for the first time in a while, they have been working to make just about all the Red Lights go away... Other resources are coming to a point that while things in most cases are not New... They are becoming more reliable again.

Thanks to "many people," Bruno is a dual 2.8Ghz Xeon the 12 Gig of RAM and the last couple of drives will be in place shortly. So as the file copy, is now working properly... We should see good things during the next Weekly Outage...

A User came up with enough Sata drives to solve that part of the issue... Thank You!

Thank You to Everyone that has found "something," It shows the Spirit of those that Believe in Seti! Many do not want their names displayed...

Regards

Pappa


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Message 531857 - Posted: 16 Mar 2007, 0:18:01 UTC - in response to Message 528717.

I would have recommended Maxtor; however, as Seagate has taken over Maxtor recently, I am hesitant to make such a recommendation. In my experience, and from friends' and colleagues' experiences with Seagate Drives - they tend to fail early and have even greater Dead In Box issues. I myself have had many such experiences in the past, and this has left a very VERY bad taste in my mouth pertaining to Seagate.


No, no, no! Maxtor is probably the only brand that should be totally avoided. I bought an quality-Maxtor HDD a year ago and I sent it back to the shop a week ago, because there were bad sectors and bad S.M.A.R.T.-values. Maybe Seagate will make Maxtor a somewhat better in the future, but I would not count on it. Please, do yourselves a favour and do not buy Maxtor HDDs.


Oh, I don't know about that. I've been buying Maxtor for over twelve years and have yet to have one fail on me.

Now Western Digital is another story. I have about twenty drives I've had to replace out of systems (or some that I bought myself giving WD a try) that all went into the garbage.

The only other brands that I actually trust are Fujitsu, IBM and Seagate (in order of least to most favored).
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Message 531976 - Posted: 16 Mar 2007, 3:58:06 UTC - in response to Message 531857.

I would have recommended Maxtor; however, as Seagate has taken over Maxtor recently, I am hesitant to make such a recommendation. In my experience, and from friends' and colleagues' experiences with Seagate Drives - they tend to fail early and have even greater Dead In Box issues. I myself have had many such experiences in the past, and this has left a very VERY bad taste in my mouth pertaining to Seagate.


No, no, no! Maxtor is probably the only brand that should be totally avoided. I bought an quality-Maxtor HDD a year ago and I sent it back to the shop a week ago, because there were bad sectors and bad S.M.A.R.T.-values. Maybe Seagate will make Maxtor a somewhat better in the future, but I would not count on it. Please, do yourselves a favour and do not buy Maxtor HDDs.


Oh, I don't know about that. I've been buying Maxtor for over twelve years and have yet to have one fail on me.

Now Western Digital is another story. I have about twenty drives I've had to replace out of systems (or some that I bought myself giving WD a try) that all went into the garbage.

The only other brands that I actually trust are Fujitsu, IBM and Seagate (in order of least to most favored).

I've had Seagate(4096 series, Went through 10 to find one that worked, they were full height 5.25" bricks, MFM cables too), Hitachi, Maxtor and WD fail on Me. right now I have one 250GB Seagate sata and 5 Raptors(one 150GB and four 36GB).
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Message 532021 - Posted: 16 Mar 2007, 4:45:45 UTC - in response to Message 531976.
Last modified: 16 Mar 2007, 4:48:20 UTC

I would have recommended Maxtor; however, as Seagate has taken over Maxtor recently, I am hesitant to make such a recommendation. In my experience, and from friends' and colleagues' experiences with Seagate Drives - they tend to fail early and have even greater Dead In Box issues. I myself have had many such experiences in the past, and this has left a very VERY bad taste in my mouth pertaining to Seagate.


No, no, no! Maxtor is probably the only brand that should be totally avoided. I bought an quality-Maxtor HDD a year ago and I sent it back to the shop a week ago, because there were bad sectors and bad S.M.A.R.T.-values. Maybe Seagate will make Maxtor a somewhat better in the future, but I would not count on it. Please, do yourselves a favour and do not buy Maxtor HDDs.


Oh, I don't know about that. I've been buying Maxtor for over twelve years and have yet to have one fail on me.

Now Western Digital is another story. I have about twenty drives I've had to replace out of systems (or some that I bought myself giving WD a try) that all went into the garbage.

The only other brands that I actually trust are Fujitsu, IBM and Seagate (in order of least to most favored).

I've had Seagate(4096 series, Went through 10 to find one that worked, they were full height 5.25" bricks, MFM cables too), Hitachi, Maxtor and WD fail on Me. right now I have one 250GB Seagate sata and 5 Raptors(one 150GB and four 36GB).


So what you're trying to say is that all hard drives fail, huh? lol Never had a Hitachi, but I've had Fujitsu (and some have failed) and IBM (less have failed). WD just has to be the worse when it come to all the hard drives I've gone through in the many years I've been tinkering with computers. You couldn't pay me to take one!

Come to think of it, I had some Maxtor drives back in '89 that I still have in some of my older systems today that are still working. That's about 18 years ago! Too bad Maxtor was bought out, though at least they live on in Seagate (which is why they're my new most trusted HDD manufacturer).
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