Before the "Big Bang"...


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Message 508267 - Posted: 25 Jan 2007, 2:58:32 UTC

I've wondered what took place before the big bang. The answer was looking me in the face and could have knocked me over. If time was created during the big bang, then time did not exist before the big bang. "Elementary my dear Watson."
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Message 508272 - Posted: 25 Jan 2007, 3:01:48 UTC - in response to Message 508267.

I've wondered what took place before the big bang. The answer was looking me in the face and could have knocked me over. If time was created during the big bang, then time did not exist before the big bang. "Elementary my dear Watson."


jjemme, i personally believe that time has always existed, even before the big bang.
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Message 508273 - Posted: 25 Jan 2007, 3:02:17 UTC

Something had to be there surely??
you can't have a big bang from nothing, can you.

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Message 508275 - Posted: 25 Jan 2007, 3:09:50 UTC - in response to Message 508273.

Something had to be there surely??
you can't have a big bang from nothing, can you.


Yes you can. Quantum physics, according to the uncertainty principle, briefly stated: the universe could have started from nothing and for no reason.

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Message 508283 - Posted: 25 Jan 2007, 3:24:32 UTC

Big Bang
Big Crunch
Big Bang
Big Crunch

But which came first?

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Message 508296 - Posted: 25 Jan 2007, 3:48:02 UTC - in response to Message 508275.

Something had to be there surely??
you can't have a big bang from nothing, can you.


Yes you can. Quantum physics, according to the uncertainty principle, briefly stated: the universe could have started from nothing and for no reason.


jjemme, do you realy believe that there was nothing before the bang ?

nothing, no time on nothing ?. I cant swallow that.
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Message 508308 - Posted: 25 Jan 2007, 4:15:10 UTC - in response to Message 508296.

Something had to be there surely??
you can't have a big bang from nothing, can you.


Yes you can. Quantum physics, according to the uncertainty principle, briefly stated: the universe could have started from nothing and for no reason.


jjemme, do you realy believe that there was nothing before the bang ?

nothing, no time on nothing ?. I cant swallow that.


Well, quantum physicists have things happening in their labs that astound the human intellect. Quantum physics is definitely right now the most successful and utterly bizarre theory in the whole of physics. If these humans conclude that matter can appear from nowhere, then I am also open to the idea that nothing existed before the big bang. What the heck. If the known universe at one time was condensed into a microscopic "nugget," it's not too much of a stretch to say that no matter or time existed before the big bang.

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Message 508312 - Posted: 25 Jan 2007, 4:33:40 UTC - in response to Message 508308.

Something had to be there surely??
you can't have a big bang from nothing, can you.


Yes you can. Quantum physics, according to the uncertainty principle, briefly stated: the universe could have started from nothing and for no reason.


jjemme, do you realy believe that there was nothing before the bang ?

nothing, no time on nothing ?. I cant swallow that.


Well, quantum physicists have things happening in their labs that astound the human intellect. Quantum physics is definitely right now the most successful and utterly bizarre theory in the whole of physics. If these humans conclude that matter can appear from nowhere, then I am also open to the idea that nothing existed before the big bang. What the heck. If the known universe at one time was condensed into a microscopic "nugget," it's not too much of a stretch to say that no matter or time existed before the big bang.

Having a "nugget" of something that exploded, Is something that my mind can comprehend. A big bang from nothing I really can't imagine. Maybe thats why I'm not a scientist.
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Message 508362 - Posted: 25 Jan 2007, 7:19:54 UTC - in response to Message 508308.

Something had to be there surely??
you can't have a big bang from nothing, can you.


Yes you can. Quantum physics, according to the uncertainty principle, briefly stated: the universe could have started from nothing and for no reason.


jjemme, do you realy believe that there was nothing before the bang ?

nothing, no time on nothing ?. I cant swallow that.


Well, quantum physicists have things happening in their labs that astound the human intellect. Quantum physics is definitely right now the most successful and utterly bizarre theory in the whole of physics. If these humans conclude that matter can appear from nowhere, then I am also open to the idea that nothing existed before the big bang. What the heck. If the known universe at one time was condensed into a microscopic "nugget," it's not too much of a stretch to say that no matter or time existed before the big bang.

There has been some interesting thoughts on that subject in the The String Cafe Table blog. It looks possible that the intersection of two branes could have been the culprit, rather than the singularity they told us about in junior high.

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Message 508373 - Posted: 25 Jan 2007, 8:25:06 UTC - in response to Message 508362.

Something had to be there surely??
you can't have a big bang from nothing, can you.


Yes you can. Quantum physics, according to the uncertainty principle, briefly stated: the universe could have started from nothing and for no reason.


jjemme, do you realy believe that there was nothing before the bang ?

nothing, no time on nothing ?. I cant swallow that.


Well, quantum physicists have things happening in their labs that astound the human intellect. Quantum physics is definitely right now the most successful and utterly bizarre theory in the whole of physics. If these humans conclude that matter can appear from nowhere, then I am also open to the idea that nothing existed before the big bang. What the heck. If the known universe at one time was condensed into a microscopic "nugget," it's not too much of a stretch to say that no matter or time existed before the big bang.

There has been some interesting thoughts on that subject in the The String Cafe Table blog. It looks possible that the intersection of two branes could have been the culprit, rather than the singularity they told us about in junior high.

I'm not sure if I understand all of that string theory. But the notion of a 'Soft Bang' is intriguing. Perhaps the Soft Bang has been going on forever, ie, there was nothing before the Soft Bang, so that something was never produced out of nothing. There was nothing before the Soft Bang because the Soft bang has been going on forever, therefore no worries about what happened before - it has always been Soft Bang.

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Message 508389 - Posted: 25 Jan 2007, 11:14:46 UTC
Last modified: 25 Jan 2007, 11:15:34 UTC

Why do we think that this is the one and only universe? What if they are created in two, a matter universe and a duplicate anti-matter universe? Or in clusters with some similar qualities? And what about our only four dimension, since we know you can have many more dimensions, so universes are out there with dimensions very different from ours?

So the thought of getting signals from ET, well, maybe I have a universe, a baby-universe, in my left little finger nail? And we assume we will see signals from our universe with the dimensions we know of, but what about if the universes overlap and/or intertwine each other, so we might snap up signals from a totally different universe?

Personal I don't think we have a universe, I think we have multiverses and we live in one of them. Or perhaps we don't, maybe we have similar lives in all of them, just as quantum physics tell us we have multiple possibilities before the waves collapse and harden and we become particles?

Oooooh, I feel dizzy!



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Message 508428 - Posted: 25 Jan 2007, 14:34:43 UTC - in response to Message 508275.

Something had to be there surely??
you can't have a big bang from nothing, can you.


Yes you can. Quantum physics, according to the uncertainty principle, briefly stated: the universe could have started from nothing and for no reason.


Ah ha! is that why 'er indoors gets cross every now and then???

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Message 508429 - Posted: 25 Jan 2007, 14:41:47 UTC - in response to Message 508428.

Something had to be there surely??
you can't have a big bang from nothing, can you.


Yes you can. Quantum physics, according to the uncertainty principle, briefly stated: the universe could have started from nothing and for no reason.


Ah ha! is that why 'er indoors gets cross every now and then???

LOL..great example of something from nothing.
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Message 508432 - Posted: 25 Jan 2007, 14:49:36 UTC

On a serious note though.. I've always believed that the universe has existed forever..If the big bang people are correct I'll have to change my belief to .. nothing has always existed forever with the potential to explode into a universe!
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Message 508547 - Posted: 25 Jan 2007, 19:20:10 UTC


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Message 514006 - Posted: 6 Feb 2007, 11:34:00 UTC - in response to Message 508312.

Something had to be there surely??
you can't have a big bang from nothing, can you.


Yes you can. Quantum physics, according to the uncertainty principle, briefly stated: the universe could have started from nothing and for no reason.


jjemme, do you realy believe that there was nothing before the bang ?

nothing, no time on nothing ?. I cant swallow that.


Well, quantum physicists have things happening in their labs that astound the human intellect. Quantum physics is definitely right now the most successful and utterly bizarre theory in the whole of physics. If these humans conclude that matter can appear from nowhere, then I am also open to the idea that nothing existed before the big bang. What the heck. If the known universe at one time was condensed into a microscopic "nugget," it's not too much of a stretch to say that no matter or time existed before the big bang.

Having a "nugget" of something that exploded, Is something that my mind can comprehend. A big bang from nothing I really can't imagine. Maybe thats why I'm not a scientist.

If Atomic cant understand it....Its ALL gotta be just lies !
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Message 514387 - Posted: 7 Feb 2007, 3:08:46 UTC - in response to Message 508267.

I've wondered what took place before the big bang. The answer was looking me in the face and could have knocked me over. If time was created during the big bang, then time did not exist before the big bang. "Elementary my dear Watson."

Well it is called the space-time continuum. I don't believe you can have one without the other. So if there is no space there is no time, and vice versa.
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Message 515962 - Posted: 10 Feb 2007, 22:58:35 UTC

Just because we are finite and everything we know is finite, doesn't mean everything is finite.

Time is just a measurement but has no start or end.

We never get born or die either, we are just a collection of atoms that have always been there that got composed to form us and when we die the atoms that form us will still be there.

Conservation of energy states that energy and matter can't be destroyed, only converted. Which in itself means there is no beginning or end and infinity is a factor.

Math fails whenever infinity comes into a physics equation, but I'm guessing that'll change when our perception of time changes.

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Message 515997 - Posted: 11 Feb 2007, 0:46:41 UTC
Last modified: 11 Feb 2007, 0:55:07 UTC

Does science even try to address anything before the BB?

Always thought that since this was something outside of observation, that it couldn't be addressed. No point in it. "Laws" go to hell in a hand basket at singularity.

Seems this "before" question goes nicely hand-in-hand with the universe model question.

I like the "closed, finite, but unbounded" model. It answers the universe question very easily, but then pushes the question onto a multiverse.

Are there 4D Landers, 5D Landers, etc?

(Reference to the Flatlanders living on the 2D edge of an expanding balloon analogy to mentally illustrate our curved space. The curve exists only as a mathematical construct to us, we can only indirectly observe it -- just like the Flatlanders, who are 2D, can't recognize that they are on the surface of a sphere. The them, there is no sphere.)



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Message 516019 - Posted: 11 Feb 2007, 1:43:49 UTC

The only ones that I've noticed that are really looking at the grander scale of things and beyond the BB are people involved in Brane theory.
They had a nice segment in the Nova "Ellegant Universe" docu.

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