I'm all for kicking the crap out of Hazbola but over running the nation won't make anything better

Really. Ask Germany how that worked out. Or Japan.

---

Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

I wish it weren't necessary...

Suggested Speech for Prime Minister Olmert
by Ben Caspit, Ma'ariv

Ladies and gentlemen, leaders of the world. I, the Prime Minister of Israel, am speaking to you from Jerusalem in the face of the terrible pictures from Kfar Kana. Any human heart, wherever it is, must sicken and recoil at the sight of such pictures. There are no words of comfort that can mitigate the enormity of this tragedy. Still, I am looking you straight in the eyes and telling you that the State of Israel will continue its military campaign in Lebanon.

The Israel Defense Forces will continue to attack targets from which missiles and Katyusha rockets are fired at hospitals, old age homes and kindergartens in Israel. I have instructed the security forces and the IDF to continue to hunt for the Katyusha stockpiles and launch sites from which these savages are bombarding the State of Israel.

We will not hesitate, we will not apologize and we will not back off. If they continue to launch missiles into Israel from Kfar Kana, we will continue to bomb Kfar Kana. Today, tomorrow and the day after tomorrow. Here, there and everywhere. The children of Kfar Kana could now be sleeping peacefully in their homes, unmolested, had the agents of the devil not taken over their land and turned the lives of our children into hell.

Ladies and gentlemen, it's time you understood: the Jewish state will no longer be trampled upon. We will no longer allow anyone to exploit population centers in order to bomb our citizens. No one will be able to hide anymore behind women and children in order to kill our women and children. This anarchy is over. You can condemn us, you can boycott us, you can stop visiting us and, if necessary, we will stop visiting you.

Today I am serving as the voice of six million bombarded Israeli citizens who serve as the voice of six million murdered Jews who were melted down to dust and ashes by savages in Europe. In both cases, those responsible for these evil acts were barbarians devoid of all humanity who set themselves one simple goal: to wipe the Jewish race off the face of the earth, as Adolph Hitler said, or to wipe the State of Israel off of the map, as Mahmoud Ahmedinajad proclaims. And you, just as you did not take those words seriously then, you are ignoring them again now. And that, ladies and gentlemen, leaders of the world, will not happen again. Never again will we wait for bombs that never came to hit the gas chambers. Never again will we wait for salvation that never arrives. Now we have our own air force. The Jewish people are now capable of standing up to those who seek their destruction. Those people will no longer be able to hide behind women and children. They will no longer be able to evade their responsibility.

Every place from which a Katyusha is fired into the State of Israel will be a legitimate target for us to attack. This must be stated clearly and publicly, once and for all. You are welcome to judge us, to ostracize us, to boycott us and to vilify us. But to kill us? Absolutely not.

Four months ago I was elected by hundreds of thousands of citizens to the office of Prime Minister of the government of Israel, on the basis of my plan for unilaterally withdrawing from 90 percent of the areas of Judea and Samaria, the birth place and cradle of the Jewish people; to end most of the occupation and to enable the Palestinian people to turn over a new leaf and to calm things down until conditions are ripe for attaining a permanent settlement between us.

The Prime Minister who preceded me, Ariel Sharon, made a full withdrawal from the Gaza Strip back to the international border, and gave the Palestinians there a chance to build a new reality for themselves. The Prime Minister who preceded him, Ehud Barak, ended the lengthy Israeli presence in Lebanon and pulled the IDF back to the international border, leaving the land of the cedars to flourish, develop and establish its democracy and its economy.

What did the State of Israel get in exchange for all of this? Did we win even one minute of quiet? Was our hand, outstretched in peace, met with a handshake of encouragement? Ehud Barak's peace initiative at Camp David let loose on us a wave of suicide bombers who smashed and blew to pieces over 1,000 citizens, men, women and children. I don't remember you being so enraged then. Maybe that happened because we did not allow TV close-ups of the dismembered body parts of the Israeli youngsters at the Dolphinarium. Or of the shattered lives of the people butchered while celebrating the Passover seder at the Park Hotel in Netanya. That's the way we are. We don't wave body parts at the camera. We grieve quietly.

We do not dance on the roofs at the sight of the bodies of our enemy's children - we express genuine sorrow and regret. That is the monstrous behavior of our enemies. Now they have risen up against us.

Tomorrow they will rise up against you. You are already familiar with the murderous taste of this terror. And you will taste more. And Ariel Sharon's withdrawal from Gaza, what did it get us? A barrage of Kassem missiles fired at peaceful settlements and the kidnapping of soldiers. Then too, I don't recall you reacting with such alarm. And for six years, the withdrawal from Lebanon has drawn the vituperation and crimes of a dangerous, extremist Iranian agent, who took over an entire country in the name of religious fanaticism and is trying to take Israel hostage on its way to Jerusalem - and from there to Paris and London.

An enormous terrorist infrastructure has been established by Iran on our border, threatening our citizens, growing stronger before our very eyes, awaiting the moment when the land of the Ayatollahs becomes a nuclear power in order to bring us to our knees. And make no mistake - we won't go down alone. You, the leaders of the free and enlightened world, will go down along with us.

So today, here and now, I am putting an end to this parade of hypocrisy. I don't recall such a wave of reaction in the face of the 100 citizens killed every single day in Iraq. Sunnis kill Shiites who kill Sunnis, and all of them kill Americans - and the world remains silent. And I am hard pressed to recall a similar reaction when the Russians destroyed entire villages and burned down large cities in order to repress the revolt in Chechnya. And when NATO bombed
Kosovo for almost three months and crushed the civilian population - then you also kept silent. What is it about us, the Jews, the minority, the persecuted, that arouses this cosmic sense of justice in you? What do we have that all the others don't?

In a loud clear voice, looking you straight in the eyes, I stand before you openly and I will not apologize. I will not capitulate. I will not whine. This is a battle for our freedom. For our humanity.

For the right to lead normal lives within our recognized, legitimate borders. It is also your battle. I pray and I believe that now you will understand that. Because if you don't, you may regret it later, when it's too late.

---

Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

The Land War in Lebanon:

Israel has replaced its lead general to head the operations in Lebanon. General Dan Halutz will be the "Patton of Lebanon" and an estimated addtional 40,000 troops will be added to the existing 7,000 presently in Lebanon, as reported in the CanWest story below.

A couple of observations: CanWest is wrong I think, in quoting that caretaker as saying the IDF is (only) three kilometres north of the border with Israel. If you look at the Southern Lebanon map in the "Middle East Maps", you'll see that Marijayoun is more like 30 kilometres or almost 20 miles north into Lebanon on the northeast, and across the south, the IDF is now north of the Litani River, and is likely advancing on Nabatiyeh as we speak. The main thrust still seems to be that northeast salient up the road from Bint Jubail. They will undoubtably overrun Cheba soon too, to protect the eastern flank of that salient. You can also see that they've gone quite a bit further today than they were yesterday, and are definitely north of the Litani River already.

See the South Lebanon Map for the towns and the North Labanon map for the kms/miles scale.

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=33114&nowrap=true#393205

http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=33114&nowrap=true#393206


Also, it's interesting to see that, for the first time ever (AFIK), Hassan Nasrallah, the Hezbolla leader, has issued an evacuation notice and warning. That probably dovetails with today's diplomatic initiative by President Chirac to oppose the United States policy, reported in the story.


**********************************


ISRAEL POURS IN TROOPS
New general takes helm as ground war expands
CanWest News Service
BY MATTHEW FISHER
in Beirut
and STEVEN EDWARDS
at the United Nations


Having made little headway militarily or diplomatically after 29 days of often fierce fighting, Israel’s security Cabinet moved yesterday to widen the war against Hezbollah by sending tens of thousands more troops as far as 30 kilometres inside Lebanon to silence its enemy’s rockets.

The decision, which could be reversed if stalled peace talks at the United Nations in New York unexpectedly succeed in the next few days, came as a senior Israeli general with long experience in Lebanon took over the war against Hezbollah and columns of tanks and armoured vehicles trundled across the border to join the battle.

Military sources told Israeli media they expected the widened ground campaign would take between four and six weeks, with as many as 40,000 fresh Israeli troops poised to join the 7,000 already in Lebanon.

Israel confirmed late yesterday that 15 of its soldiers had been killed in southern Lebanon, the largest number of military deaths in a single day since the offensive began. At least 30 Hezbollah fighters died, the Israeli army said.

As presented to the Cabinet by Israel’s top general, Dan Halutz, the army will seize all land south of the Litani River, which runs roughly parallel to the Israel border about 30 kilometres inside Lebanon. The army also got permission to cross the Litani near the town of Nabatiyeh, which Israel says has been a launching pad for Hezbollah rockets.

Unbowed, Hassan Nasrallah, the charismatic Shiite cleric who heads Hezbollah, appeared on Arab television within hours of the Israeli announcement.

Sheik Nasrallah threatened to turn the south of Lebanon into “a graveyard for Zionist invaders.”

He warned “Muslim brothers” in the religiously mixed Israeli city of Haifa, which has been targeted many times by Hezbollah rockets recently, to leave or face the consequences.

Sheik Nasrallah denounced a draft peace resolution before the UN Security Council as “unfair and unjust” and said that it helps Israel achieve politically what he said it had not been able to achieve on the battlefield by allowing its forces to remain in Lebanon until a proposed international force arrives.

An Arab League compromise, which would have 15,000 troops from the Lebanese Army move into southern Lebanon until foreign troops arrive was “an honourable exit,” Sheik Nasrallah said. That Arab proposal, which was presented in New York on Tuesday, has received a lukewarm reception in Washington and hopes for a quick diplomatic solution are fading.

French President Jacques Chirac threw down the gauntlet over Lebanon yesterday, warning the United States that France will table its own United Nations resolution unless Washington agrees to accommodate newly voiced Arab League demands.

Recalling the U.S.-French split ahead of the Iraq war, Mr. Chirac said allowing talks in the Security Council to drift while fighting rages in Lebanon would be “most immoral,” so France would force the issue for the two veto-bearing members.

“We will have a debate in the Security Council and each will affirm clearly its position, naturally including France, through its own resolution,” he said in Toulon, France, after interrupting his vacation.

At the United Nations, U.S. ambassador John Bolton as much as admitted the U.S.-French draft agreed to on Saturday morning and calling for a “full cessation of hostilities” is off the table, but denied talks had collapsed.

The latest holdup developed after the 22-member Arab League, meeting in Beirut on Monday, rejected the Saturday agreement because it fails to demand the immediate withdrawal of Israeli forces from southern Lebanon.

The United States agrees with Israel that any withdrawal ahead of the arrival of a robust international peacekeeping force would allow Hezbollah to reoccupy the area, and France, in putting its name to Saturday’s draft resolution, appeared to share that view.

But in a reflection of France’s traditional close ties to the Arab world, France is now pushing for compromise language.

The main Israeli thrust deep in to Lebanon was still not expected for 48 hours. But there were signs yesterday that the first stages to soften up Hezbollah positions near the border had already begun.

“Since 48 hours we have only had bombs,” Simon Diab Singer said by telephone from St. Marjorie’s Church in Marjayoun, five kilometres north of the Israeli border town of Metula, as the sound of artillery could clearly be heard exploding in the background.

Mr. Singer’s words from the mostly Christian town were confirmed by dramatic live images of the bombardment from Metula broadcast by CNN.

“The situation is very difficult right now,” the church caretaker said. “Almost everyone is gone, including the Hezbollah leaders. But the Hezbollah fighters are still all around here.

“The Israelis tried to enter from Metula in the afternoon but they quickly lost two tanks and went back. They returned tonight and are now about three kilometres into Lebanon. We are hiding in the church. Planes have dropped papers telling us not to move, and that if we do, we will be killed.”

Israeli warplanes repeatedly bombarded south Beirut during daylight air raids yesterday as the death toll from Monday’s bombing of an apartment building in the capital climbed to 41, making it the most deadly single attack so far.

Bombs were dropped and fired missiles at other Hezbollah strongholds in the Bekaa Valley yesterday and in many places along and near the border between Lebanon and Israel, with guns on Israeli ships joining in the battle. For the first time, a Palestinian refugee camp in southern Lebanon where Israel was also attacked.

Hezbollah hit Israel with 160 more rockets yesterday. It has fired about 3,000 rockets since the war began on July 12 and is believed to still have at least 10,000 more of these weapons stockpiled in houses and underground bunkers in southern Lebanon.

CanWest News Service

---

Today I am serving as the voice of six million bombarded Israeli citizens who serve as the voice of six million murdered Jews who were melted down to dust and ashes by savages in Europe.

It is beyond me how there are governments in the world today that pooh-pooh the almost successful extermination with protesting that fact and suggesting that it never happened. I have never doubted that since the beginning of this campaign, Israel would do everything in their power to not let this happen again, but there seems to be a extraordinary amount of "selective amnesia" among European nations that would find fault with the right to survive. Unmolested.

World views have become so distorted that whatever the "popular opinion" of the day is, it seems to bear more weight than what is right.

And again, now as British authorities have arrested a number of terrorists plotting to destroy aircraft in a fairly complex chemical lab scheme to be performed in flight, how can we minimize the fact that this is truly an international problem?

Terrorist training continues and volunteers willing to commit atrocities seem to be endless.

I believe the solution to be self evident.

I believe the solution to be self evident.

Yep. Turn the Middle East into a nice pretty sheet of glass that nobody will want to fight over.

Kidding people. Let's not start throwing rocks.

---

Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

I believe the solution to be self evident.

Yep. Turn the Middle East into a nice pretty sheet of glass that nobody will want to fight over.

Kidding people. Let's not start throwing rocks.

I dont think nuking the area will serve anybody well, but a little more unity in resolving terrorism might.

It's chilling to think that the Nostradamus prediction of the Middle East turning into flame would actually happen!

I believe the solution to be self evident.

Yep. Turn the Middle East into a nice pretty sheet of glass that nobody will want to fight over.

Kidding people. Let's not start throwing rocks.

I dont think nuking the area will serve anybody well, but a little more unity in resolving terrorism might.

It's chilling to think that the Nostradamus prediction of the Middle East turning into flame would actually happen!

*feigns open mouth shock*
The middle east turnedint flame?! That guy could look so deep, maaaaaan. Far out, maaaaaan. Who woulda thunk it?
:-)

---

Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

I believe that the solution

[self-censored in case I get banned]

:-)) whew! That was close!

I believe with every fibre in my body, that I have said enough in this thread.
If none of you have either grasped the force of my argument or are too died-in-the-wool to consider
the consequences, then you cannot be convinced, and further discussion here is pointless.
Nor can you be saved from the continuing wrath that you will have to endure in the future.
Therefore, this is my last post in this thread. I will not even bother to even access this thread again.

Typical political speak...always trying to have the last word, and saying nothing!

---

"We can work together for a better world with men and women of goodwill,
those who radiate the intrinsic goodness of humankind. To do so effectively,
the world needs a global ethic with values which give meaning to life experiences and,
more than religious institutions and dogmas, sustain the non-material dimension of humanity.

Mankind's universal values of love, compassion, solidarity, caring and tolerance should
form the basis for this global ethic which should permeate culture, politics, trade,
religion and philosophy. It should also permeate the extended family of the United Nations"

. . .

~ Wangari Maathai ~

The terrorists

are thought to have been working in two-man teams. They have chosen one of Britain's smaller airports – such as Birmingham, Manchester or Glasgow – to avoid the heavier security at Heathrow or Gatwick but will change planes in London for a U.S. flight. Their liquid chemicals, disguised as sports drinks are not detected by either sniffer dogs or airport scanners.

At a pre-arranged

time, both men visit the toilet. The first bomber leaves a quantity of chemicals to be found by his accomplice. Graphic by Philip Argent and John Lawson

The highly

unstable mixture can be detonated by the electronic pulse of a key fob or even the flash from a camera .

Police believe the gang

targeted flights to five major American cities.

It is thought

that the bottles could have contained drain cleaner, bleach and the nail varnish remover acetone – separately they are harmless, but mixed together they become triacetone triperoxide, better known as TATP. Nicknamed the 'Mother of Satan', it has become the explosive of choice for suicide bombers across the world. Acid, such as a splash of lemon juice, may be added as a catalyst.



Mother of Satan bombers foiled
24 Britons are held as police smash plot to mark 9/11 anniversary with ‘mass murder on unimaginable scale’
HOW IT COULD HAVE UNFOLDED
By David Williams and Stephen Wright



BRITISH Muslims plotted to blow up nine crowded airliners over American cities, it was reported last night.


Police said the aim was to ‘commit mass murder on an unimaginable scale’ – bigger even than the 9/11 atrocity in 2001.


The blitz could even have been launched on the fifth anniversary of that attack.


U.S authorities said last night that the plotters planned to destroy three planes an hour for three hours, killing all the passengers and potentially causing thousands of deaths on the ground.


Police and security services who had been monitoring the plot yesterday arrested 24 people in a series of dramatic raids on homes in London, High Wycombe and Birmingham. Almost all those held are from Pakistani backgrounds.


Detectives also found a suspected bomb factory containing liquids and other materials that could be put together to make explosives. The mixture would have been similar to Al Qaeda’s favourite explosive TATP, known as Mother of Satan because of its devastating power. It was used by the July 7 bombers in London last year.


In an extraordinary move last night a threemile no-fly zone was imposed over the Buckinghamshire town of High Wycombe where the suspect materials were found in one of the raided homes. Neighbours said brothers Amjad and Asad Sarwar, whose family have lived in the semi-detached house in Walton Drive for 20 years, were arrested.


The 2am police action led to a day of chaos at airports nationwide. Hundreds of thousands of passengers faced lengthy delays or cancelled flights and tight restrictions were imposed on hand luggage.


The delays are set to continue today and well into the weekend, with tourists returning to Britain also likely to be affected.


Among other developments in a day of drama:


Intelligence chiefs raised the UK threat level to critical– the highest – effectively meaning Britain is under attack.


Investigators said they feared Heathrow security may have been infiltrated – one of those held was a security guard there.


Pakistani officials claimed an extremist arrested on the Afghan border had provided crucial intelligence that led to the plot being discovered.


U.S. TV said five members of the terror gang were still being hunted.


Scotland Yard Deputy Commissioner Paul Stephenson said: ‘We are confident we have disrupted a plan by terrorists to cause untold death and destruction and to commit mass murder. This was intended to be mass murder on an unimaginable scale.’


The mastermind of the plot – which was said to have been aimed at the U.S. airlines United, American and Continental – is understood to be under arrest in Pakistan.


The British head of the operation is said to be among the 24 held although Whitehall sources warned last night that a second cell might still be in hiding and planning attacks.


U.S. officials said the plot carried the ‘hallmarks of Al Qaeda’ – simultaneous bombings and the use of airliners. But Peter Clarke, head of the Yard’s anti-terrorist branch, said only that the network was large and global. He said the investigation had involved unprecedented levels of surveillance, adding: ‘We have been looking at meetings, movement, travel, spending and the aspirations of a large group of people.’


The men are said to have used Internet cafes in Slough, Berkshire, and East London, while telephone calls between gang members were monitored and at least four vehicles bugged.


Some had been planning to board planes at Glasgow, Manchester and Birmingham airports, transferring to transatlantic flights from Heathrow and Gatwick.


At least a dozen of those under arrest hold dual Pakistani citizenship, according to security officials in Islamabad.


It was in Pakistan that two of the July 7 bombers, school teacher Siddique Khan and student Shehzad Tanweer, met Al Qaeda figures and trained at terror camps.


Scotland Yard had hoped to carry out the raids in one or two weeks’ time.


According to Whitehall sources, the operation had to be brought forward at the last minute, however, because of the activities of intelligence agencies in the U.S.


Intelligence about the impending terror swoop was passed to authorities in America – believed to be the CIA and FBI – a number of weeks ago. They were asked to sit on the information until arrests were made in England.


But the Americans are said to have gone ‘pro-active’ – potentially alerting associates of the UK suspects. A Whitehall source said: ‘Scotland Yard was effectively bounced into these arrests by the Americans.’


The raids led to the sudden imposition of sweeping new security measures at airports.


All hand luggage was banned from cabins and had to be checked in.


Passengers were not allowed to carry any electronic devices, including mobile telephones or keyfobs, which could have been used to trigger a bomb.


Liquids – including contact lens fluids, shampoo and water – were taken from passengers amid fears that bombs were to be constructed in mid-air from liquid smuggled aboard. Even baby milk taken aboard by parents had to be tasted first.


Reports from the U.S. said the suicide bombers had planned to


conceal their liquid or gel explosives inside a modified sports drink container. It could have been triggered by the flash from a disposable camera.


The reports said the plotters planned to leave the top of the bottle sealed and filled with the original drink, hiding the explosives in a false bottom.


They believed this would allow them to pass undetected through airport security, even if they were asked to take a sip of the drink.


The flash in a disposable camera has enough electrical power, they apparently believed, to set off the homemade explosive.


U.S. officials said the plotters hoped to stage a ‘dry run’ within two days.


The actual attack could have followed days later. Tony Blair, who was told of the raids while on holiday in the Caribbean, said : ‘I would like to pay tribute to the immense effort made by the police and security services who for a long period of time have tracked this situation and been involved in an extraordinary amount of hard work. I thank them for the great job they are doing in protecting our country.’ He added: ‘There has been an enormous amount of cooperation with the U.S. authorities which has been of great value and underlines the threat we face and our determination to counter it.’


The Prime Minister is said to have briefed President Bush about the plot on at least three occasions.


Last night Mr Bush praised cooperation between British and U.S. security experts, adding the plot was a ‘stark reminder that this nation is at war with Islamic fascists who will use any means to destroy those of us who love freedom’.


It was also revealed that American air marshals are being sent to the UK to provide increased security on flights bound for the U.S.


The travel disruption intensified last night when easyJet said it was cancelling 88 flights today – including 28 to and from Stansted, 40 to and from Luton and 20 to and from Gatwick.


Other airports affected include Geneva, Amsterdam, Paris and several in Scotland.


The airline said it had to ‘sacrifice’ some flights to ensure it could offer a robust service on others. Those chosen were the ones where an alternative form of travel – such as train – might be easiest.


Rival Ryanair said it was cancelling 44 international and domestic flights scheduled for today, hitting destinations including Ireland, Germany and Portugal.


Other passengers were warned to expect delays.


In Washington, U.S. attorney general Alberto Gonzales said the plot could have killed ‘ hundreds of innocent people’.


He said those responsible were ‘extremists’ who had ‘gone beyond just stating a desire to kill Americans’.


‘Their plotting turned to action as they took several steps to carry out their deadly plan,’ Mr Gonzales said.


The U.S. administration raised the threat level for flights from Britain to ‘red’, meaning a severe risk of terrorist attacks.


It banned drinks, hair gels and lotions from flights, saying only that liquids had emerged as a risk from the UK investigation.


The impact of the plot was felt across the financial markets with British Airways shares slumping 5 per cent, wiping around £200 million off the value of the company. Ryanair and easyJet were both down 2per cent.


d.williams@dailymail.co.uk


Additional reporting:


BEN TAYLOR

---

It's Reid who doesn't get it

This government's response to the real threat of terrorism has only made things worse

Dan Plesch
Friday August 11, 2006
The Guardian

Popular trust in government is a necessary foundation of a society's defences against terrorism. We need to believe we are being told the truth and that our government is acting in good faith. Unfortunately there is now sufficient reason to be sceptical about who we should entrust our security to.

The alleged plot to attack aircraft and passengers announced by Scotland Yard yesterday obviously concerns us all and, for the time being, we have to take it at face value. There have so far been some modest successes by the security services in bringing terrorists to trial. But the government's actions have also been marked by misinformation and false scares. The supposed ricin poison plot, the Forest Gate raid and the "padded jacket" Jean Charles de Menezes never wore when he was shot dead by police last year come immediately to mind.

More important for public safety are the false government claims made after last summer's London tube bombings that the attacks were made by people unknown to the authorities. It is now known that some of the attackers had been under observation, and that at least one member of the public was ignored when he did what the government asked and acted as its eyes and ears. We badly need effective counterterrorist tactics and strategy. The threat is real both at home and abroad. But the problem is not that his critics "don't get" the terrorist threat, as the home secretary has put it, but that the government has, with the US, abandoned all the principles of effective counterterrorism. These were practised by the British against countless insurgencies. Whether or not you agree with Niall Ferguson and Gordon Brown about empire, it is instructive to review the five key principles that - usually - allowed imperial rule with minimum force.

First, ensure good coordination between security services and police. Karen DeYoung's indictment of the failure of the US security services to talk to each other in this week's Washington Post is truly damning. By refusing to communicate, the US services render their, and by extension our, services less effective. We now know that US officials have a routine seat at Britain's joint intelligence committee, a fact that one of its former chairmen told me makes it hard for the British state to think independently. Do US officials also sit in on the UK's counterterror organisations, and if so how do they relate to the myriad, non-communicating services detailed by the Washington Post?

The other four principles are to deny the enemy a base, secure your own base, keep the political and moral high ground and address your opponents' grievances.

Our leaders say there are no grievances to be addressed, despite the fact that the London bombers said they were motivated by the Iraq war and our security services warned that the occupation of Iraq would increase the terrorist threat.

Our moral high ground is preserved by a US attorney general who was promoted to this office after sanctioning the Guantánamo detention camp and the practices used at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

The Islamist terrorists still have a base in Pakistan and Afghanistan. By shifting attention to Iraq after 9/11, we gave al-Qaida and the Taliban a respite for which British troops are now paying the price. And more people are prepared to provide tacit support to those fighting the US.

Our own base is now less secure than before 9/11, based on the number of actual and alleged threats, while our continued unnecessary dependence on oil makes our home base hostage to adverse regime change abroad. There are indeed those who do not get the terrorist threat. Principal among them are the prime minister and his supporters.

· Dan Plesch is a research associate at the Centre for International Studies and Diplomacy, School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London

---

I know this deals with UK issues, but I don't know UK internal politics that well. Since the author blames UK problems on the US, I can comment on the US end of things.

It's Reid who doesn't get it

This government's response to the real threat of terrorism has only made things worse

Dan Plesch
Friday August 11, 2006
The Guardian

Popular trust in government is a necessary foundation of a society's defences against terrorism. We need to believe we are being told the truth and that our government is acting in good faith. Unfortunately there is now sufficient reason to be sceptical about who we should entrust our security to.

When the US's opposition party states on the record (but without a shred of proof) that the US administration is lying and violating international law and other malfeasance, it's no wonder that people get skeptical of what they hear from "people in the government." When major press outlets have made it their business to thwart every attempt to win the war, it's no wonder that people get skeptical about what they hear "in the news" as well.

And this is on top of the fact that elements within the US government are doing more than just spreading misinformation but actively working against their own government by leaking critical information to a press that has shown itself to be hostile to seeing the US/UK side win this war.

Add on top of that honest mistakes have been made, some inexcusable mistakes have been made, and the enemy has an effective PR machine for exploiting such things, it gets really hard to believe anything that hasn't been sourced half a dozen ways.

The alleged plot to attack aircraft and passengers announced by Scotland Yard yesterday obviously concerns us all and, for the time being, we have to take it at face value. There have so far been some modest successes by the security services in bringing terrorists to trial. But the government's actions have also been marked by misinformation and false scares. The supposed ricin poison plot, the Forest Gate raid and the "padded jacket" Jean Charles de Menezes never wore when he was shot dead by police last year come immediately to mind.

The last one would be one of the inexcusable mistakes I alluded to earlier. Not familiar with the other two.

However, to dismiss the operational success yesterday as "modest" is an insult to the hard-working security forces that keep the UK and the US free. Islamist fascists have been denied their primary target of the US and switched to alternate targets like the UK and Spain. Now even the alternate targets are getting too hard to crack.

This indicates that the terrorists are losing. However, don't say that because it might make President Bush look good. Can't have that. Truth be damned.

More important for public safety are the false government claims made after last summer's London tube bombings that the attacks were made by people unknown to the authorities. It is now known that some of the attackers had been under observation, and that at least one member of the public was ignored when he did what the government asked and acted as its eyes and ears. We badly need effective counterterrorist tactics and strategy. The threat is real both at home and abroad. But the problem is not that his critics "don't get" the terrorist threat, as the home secretary has put it, but that the government has, with the US, abandoned all the principles of effective counterterrorism. These were practised by the British against countless insurgencies. Whether or not you agree with Niall Ferguson and Gordon Brown about empire, it is instructive to review the five key principles that - usually - allowed imperial rule with minimum force.

Effective counterterrorism is virtually impossible in a climate of political correctness. Get rid of that set of handcuffs and you'd be amazed at the progress they'd make.

First, ensure good coordination between security services and police. Karen DeYoung's indictment of the failure of the US security services to talk to each other in this week's Washington Post is truly damning. By refusing to communicate, the US services render their, and by extension our, services less effective. We now know that US officials have a routine seat at Britain's joint intelligence committee, a fact that one of its former chairmen told me makes it hard for the British state to think independently. Do US officials also sit in on the UK's counterterror organisations, and if so how do they relate to the myriad, non-communicating services detailed by the Washington Post?

The Clinton administration in the US from early 1993 to early 2001 laid several barriers to cooperation between various security forces. This was reckless and led more or less directly to the US's inability to detect and thwart the 9/11 attacks (which was, by the way, a second attempt on the World Trade Center).

One could argue that this was an honest mistake. I don't buy that argument, but regardless, it is inexcusable that partisan politics has gotten in the way of fixing all the facets of this problem. (It actually takes a 60% vote in the Senate to pass most measures, and the opposition party has had over 40% during the entire Bush Presidency... in this way it has managed to slow or stop reforms that it didn't like for some reason or other.)

The other four principles are to deny the enemy a base, secure your own base, keep the political and moral high ground and address your opponents' grievances.

Our leaders say there are no grievances to be addressed, despite the fact that the London bombers said they were motivated by the Iraq war and our security services warned that the occupation of Iraq would increase the terrorist threat.

Yes, people who intentionally blow up civilians would never stoop to lying.

The supposed justification for terrorism shifts with the current events of the day. Israel has, by process of elimination, determined that no combination of concessions will work. History also demostrates that concessions do not work.

Our moral high ground is preserved by a US attorney general who was promoted to this office after sanctioning the Guantánamo detention camp and the practices used at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.

I dare you to compare a biased reading of an interrogation manual by a handful of MPs with impulse control problems to the deliberate rocketting of Israeli population centers. Even if Abu Ghraib was the cause (which it is not), where are all of the Lefties screaming "Disproportionate response!"?

The Islamist terrorists still have a base in Pakistan and Afghanistan. By shifting attention to Iraq after 9/11, we gave al-Qaida and the Taliban a respite for which British troops are now paying the price. And more people are prepared to provide tacit support to those fighting the US.

The Islamist terrorists have a base in a small sliver of land spanning the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan. This is far less useful to them than the whole of Pakistan and Afghanistan, which is what they had previously.

The West lacks the will to nuke or otherwise kill every multicellular orgamism in this area, and no one has the number of troops needed to sanitize it quickly, except perhaps China.

Maybe Mr. Plesch should be asking China why it hasn't bought in fully with the War on Terror and supplied the necessary manpower. It's not like the limits of US and UK manpower are a secret.

Our own base is now less secure than before 9/11, based on the number of actual and alleged threats, while our continued unnecessary dependence on oil makes our home base hostage to adverse regime change abroad. There are indeed those who do not get the terrorist threat. Principal among them are the prime minister and his supporters.

The security issue stems directly from US partisan bickering over exactly what should be done. Had President Bush been a stronger leader, he could have overcome these problems by appealing directly to the people and forcing compliance from both parties. He is not that compelling a leader. It's just too bad that the opposition party is putting obstructionism and "political points" above the nation's security.

EDIT: grammar

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No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.

Yes, but...

WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE?

and do you really expect me to go all mushy soft and bleeding-heart liberal about them?

Pass! thank you very much.

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But hear this Guys and Gals:
It is possible that these people who were arrested might have to be released.
The Treasury has released not only the names but also the Bank Accounts that they froze, belonging to these people.
This is a clear breach of the acused's rights.
They will undoubtedly appeal to the European Court of Human Rights ... and will HAVE to be released!!!!!

Ponder on THAT and choke! I have just done so!

Don't choke. They won't be released. The government has some residual rights in defense of the realm to invoke. Besides, maybe they'll be placed into the general prison population, in which case they won't even live to come to trial.

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But hear this Guys and Gals:
It is possible that these people who were arrested might have to be released.
The Treasury has released not only the names but also the Bank Accounts that they froze.
This is a clear breach of the acused's rights.
They will undoubtedly appeal to the European Court of Human Rights ... and will HAVE to be released!!!!!

Ponder on THAT and choke! I have just done so!

Agreed Bodders ... this should be a good rationale to withdraw from the 1952 International Asylum Agreement and junk the EU Human Rights Act.

If the case building up shows our spooks were correct in the assertion, then this posits a great responsibility on the resident UK Muslim community. If they want the respect of the 98% majority (both white and ethnics) and show they are truely integrating, then they will need to demonstrate it by policing their own ferrel members.

If they come to trial, and they are UK born then they should be charged with High Treason! There is only 1 punishment for that!

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It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues

I am not so sure, JC and Beethoven.
This Government (If you could call it that) has shown itself over and over again to be so inept at "Governing" that it beggars belief, will when the call is made, refuse to back away from the EU HR Act.
At times I wish we had the guts to bring the FBI over here and hand THEM the task of Homeland Security.
And stuff the Europeans .......

I am not so sure, JC and Beethoven.
This Government (If you could call it that) has shown itself over and over again to be so inept at "Governing" that it beggars belief, will when the call is made, refuse to back away from the EU HR Act.
At times I wish we had the guts to bring the FBI over here and hand THEM the task of Homeland Security.
And stuff the Europeans .......

Actually Bodley, there is a fair amount of loaning and trading of enforcement officers that goes on between allies. I'm not talking INTERPOL or anything like that. I mean a direct loan of agents and services. During the FLQ crisis in Canada, Prime Minister Trudeau asked for, and got, 500 FBI agents to come in to the country and help make the numerous arrests in the giant crackdown he initiated, which bagged 600 FLQ members in a single raid.

I don't doubt that this sort of thing goes on behind the scenes quite often. ;)

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I am not so sure, JC and Beethoven.
This Government (If you could call it that) has shown itself over and over again to be so inept at "Governing" that it beggars belief, will when the call is made, refuse to back away from the EU HR Act.
At times I wish we had the guts to bring the FBI over here and hand THEM the task of Homeland Security.
And stuff the Europeans .......

Actually Bodley, there is a fair amount of loaning and trading of enforcement officers that goes on between allies. I'm not talking INTERPOL or anything like that. I mean a direct loan of agents and services. During the FLQ crisis in Canada, Prime Minister Trudeau asked for, and got, 500 FBI agents to come in to the country and help make the numerous arrests in the giant crackdown he initiated, which bagged 600 FLQ members in a single raid.

I don't doubt that this sort of thing goes on behind the scenes quite often. ;)

You may be right there Beethoven, but so is Bodley ...

This "so called" Government has lost control and buggered up every issue it has ever touched, right down to the economy (despite reports to the contrary).

What Bodley means, I think, is that when the hammer comes down this Government has absolutely no balls regarding issues like the EU HR Act.

The moves made over the last 5 years by the John Howard Conservative Government in Oz illustrates the main difference in Government and approach.

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It's good to be back amongst friends and colleagues