If you define 'peace' as the murderer committing successful murders then yes there will be peace when Israel is destroyed.

Israel destroy Lebanon? Whaaa!? They want to eliminate Hezbollah and go home. They've shown too much reticence already.

What kind of peace will there be when the whole region is taken over by the Mullahs?

Peace is not the absence of war.

---

Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

I think you misread what I said Robert. I asked about " in the process of getting rid of Hizbollah " Lebanon gets destroyed.

What if they DO get rid of Hizbollah? Do you seriously think there wouldn't be another group to take it's place?

Unless Iran and Syria go right along with the destruction of Hizbollah, there will always be more people to do what Hizbollah is doing.

---

Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

I think you misread what I said Robert. I asked about " in the process of getting rid of Hizbollah " Lebanon gets destroyed.

Frankly, that's rather silly. Israel couldn't destroy Lebanon if it plopped a nuke in downtown Beiruit.

What if they DO get rid of Hizbollah? Do you seriously think there wouldn't be another group to take it's place?

Under that logic we should stop fighting all terrorists right now since it makes no difference.

Unless Iran and Syria go right along with the destruction of Hizbollah, there will always be more people to do what Hizbollah is doing.

There won't be if we kill them all as is our right to do.

---

Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

I am not disputing our right to do so. What I am concerned about the resolve it would take to do something like that.

I am sure that some are going to see the question I put forth and assume that I am a blithering idiot. That is their choice.

I really don't believe that ridding the world of Hizbollah is going to help a whole lot. Iran will simply find another group to provide funds for.

Oddly enough, I probably should have known better than to say anything.

---

Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

I am not disputing our right to do so. What I am concerned about the resolve it would take to do something like that.

I am sure that some are going to see the question I put forth and assume that I am a blithering idiot. That is their choice.

I really don't believe that ridding the world of Hizbollah is going to help a whole lot. Iran will simply find another group to provide funds for.

Oddly enough, I probably should have known better than to say anything.

Think back to when Israel bombed Iraq's nuclear reactor in the 1980s. Did it quell Iraq's nuclear ambitions? No. Did it deny Iraq the use of that asset and set back their plans by years and years? Yes.

Iran (with Syrian help) has created Hezbollah as an arm's length contractor to do its dirty work. It has taken 20+ years to get Hezbollah capability where it is now. A follow-on organization might not take 20+ years to create, but it's still better than leaving Hezbollah in place.

---

No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.

This just In!

Israeli Cabinet Approves Wider Offensive


ERUSALEM (AP) - Israel's Security Cabinet on Wednesday approved a wider ground offensive in south Lebanon that was expected to take 30 days as part of a new push to badly damage Hezbollah, Israeli Cabinet minister Eli Yishai said.

The decision was made with nine ministers in favor and three abstaining. The Security Cabinet authorized troops to push to the Litani River some 18 miles from the Israel-Lebanon border. Currently, some 10,000 soldiers are fighting Hezbollah in a four-mile-deep stretch from the Israel-Lebanon border.

Yishai said the proposed operation was expected to take 30 days. However, an internationally backed cease-fire was expected to be imposed well before then.

"The assessment is it will last 30 days. I think it is wrong to make this assessment. I think it will take a lot longer," he said.

---

Wouldn't it be 'genocide' if Israel kills of all of Hezbolla? Well wouldn't it?!? And why shouldn't Israel kill them all of Hezbolla off?

This is all retarded, trying to enclose war within rules and boundaries! It's WAR. If Germany had proven to be unbeatable through dozens of other 'if hitler had instead....' then what type of a world would we have today? There wouldn't be all kind sof laws about genocide! They were made in response to what was found in Germany, weren't they?

Let's direct our attention somewhere else, too: the attack on Afghanistan following 9/11. Oh sure, the media made all kinds of reports about how the innocent were being bombed and hurt as the soulless US pilots made mistake after mistake. Well you know what? TOO BAD. That's WAR. If you disagree with what your government is doing, you have to rise up and stop it whatever the cost. The Afghanis all didn't mind mistrating their women brutally, they didn't mind being run by terrorists, they can pay the price for it. I would have wiped out every Afghani within that country to teach the world that the price of terrorism is far too high.

If Israel were to wipe out Lebanon for aiding and abetting terrorists, it would also teach the world a lesson. There are Lebanese in other countries! It wouldn't be total genocide! Aside from the fact that the Hezbollah take their launchers, park them behind schools or similar civilian targets, launch their rockets and scurry to safety. By the time Israeli intelligence gets the info, the truck is gone and the school is what gets blown up!

In any event, since the US hates terrorism soooo much, why aren't they right there also helping to invade Lebanon and wipe out terrorism?

Yes, my messages are hardly full of love, but they don't have hate in them either - the enemy needs to be destroyed. If they hide behind cvilians to help their own cause along, well then you make a choice - you either kill the civilian, too, or you spend the time and energy chasing that bastard from hiding place to hiding place, and when you do catch him - you torture him to death, commiting atrocities to his religion as an example of what happens when they play games like that.


To have peace, you have to STOMP OUT the desire for war utterly. If you don't stomp it out, it will only come back. The price for war needs to be waaaaay too high.

---

Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.

I believe with every fibre in my body, that I have said enough in this thread.
If none of you have either grasped the force of my argument or are too died-in-the-wool to consider
the consequences, then you cannot be convinced, and further discussion here is pointless.
Nor can you be saved from the continuing wrath that you will have to endure in the future.

Therefore, this is my last post in this thread. I will not even bother to even access this thread again.

Aside from the fact that the Hezbollah take their launchers, park them behind schools or similar civilian targets, launch their rockets and scurry to safety.

A recent television interview with a Lebonese man (on CNN) said it all for me. He was a construction contracter and was actively helping Hezbolla by rebuilding bridges and fortified structures. ANd he stated he wasn't the only one helping.

So much for the "innocent civilian" theory.

I believe with every fibre in my body, that I have said enough in this thread.
If none of you have either grasped the force of my argument or are too died-in-the-wool to consider
the consequences, then you cannot be convinced, and further discussion here is pointless.
Nor can you be saved from the continuing wrath that you will have to endure in the future.

Therefore, this is my last post in this thread. I will not even bother to even access this thread again.

"Ladies and gentlemen, I've been to Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq; and I can say without hyperbole that this is a million times worse than all of them put together." --Kent Brockman.

---

Cordially,
Rush

elrushbo2@theobviousgmail.com
Remove the obvious...

Wouldn't it be 'genocide' if Israel kills of all of Hezbolla? Well wouldn't it?!? And why shouldn't Israel kill them all of Hezbolla off?

No, it would be genocide if Israel killed all Lebanese on the theory that they 'might' be Hezbollah. Hezbollah is an organization and it can be dismantled (at least in theory) without killing all of the members.

This is all retarded, trying to enclose war within rules and boundaries! It's WAR. If Germany had proven to be unbeatable through dozens of other 'if hitler had instead....' then what type of a world would we have today? There wouldn't be all kind sof laws about genocide! They were made in response to what was found in Germany, weren't they?

The current iteration of 'Geneva Conventions' were largely a response to the particulars of WW2. They need some updating, but are a decent starting point.

Let's direct our attention somewhere else, too: the attack on Afghanistan following 9/11. Oh sure, the media made all kinds of reports about how the innocent were being bombed and hurt as the soulless US pilots made mistake after mistake. Well you know what? TOO BAD. That's WAR. If you disagree with what your government is doing, you have to rise up and stop it whatever the cost. The Afghanis all didn't mind mistrating their women brutally, they didn't mind being run by terrorists, they can pay the price for it. I would have wiped out every Afghani within that country to teach the world that the price of terrorism is far too high.

There was the Northern Alliance and the Southern Alliance, in addition to the exiled recognized Afghan government, all in opposition to the Taliban. This is prima facie evidence that the Afghan people were not monolithically behind the Taliban and worthy of extermination or whatever.

If Israel were to wipe out Lebanon for aiding and abetting terrorists, it would also teach the world a lesson. There are Lebanese in other countries! It wouldn't be total genocide! Aside from the fact that the Hezbollah take their launchers, park them behind schools or similar civilian targets, launch their rockets and scurry to safety. By the time Israeli intelligence gets the info, the truck is gone and the school is what gets blown up!

Personally, I think that Israel should stop apologizing for the deaths of human shields, and certainly should not give the impression that the presence of human shields will in any way deter an attack. Then the Muslim world can see that Hezbollah cares not a whit for 'the people' as the terrorists continue to risk civilians for negligible tactical gains.

In any event, since the US hates terrorism soooo much, why aren't they right there also helping to invade Lebanon and wipe out terrorism?

The US is stretched a bit thin.

Yes, my messages are hardly full of love, but they don't have hate in them either - the enemy needs to be destroyed. If they hide behind cvilians to help their own cause along, well then you make a choice - you either kill the civilian, too, or you spend the time and energy chasing that bastard from hiding place to hiding place, and when you do catch him - you torture him to death, commiting atrocities to his religion as an example of what happens when they play games like that.

That's a proposal that the concensus in the US and Israel have rejected.

To have peace, you have to STOMP OUT the desire for war utterly. If you don't stomp it out, it will only come back. The price for war needs to be waaaaay too high.

This is one of the most effective ways to prevent open war, but that's only part of the problem. The nations bordering Israel have legal or de facto peace agreements with the Jewish state, but there are subnational groups that continue to attempt slow motion genocide. The cost of agression would have to become so high to host nations that the nations are motivated to crack down on the terrorists within their borders. It would be easier in the long run to kneecap the recruitment by bringing 'freedom' to the repressive Islamic theorcracies that breed the terrorists in the first place.

The madrassas don't teach that Jews are 'dogs' because they occupy Palestine. They teach that Jews are 'dogs' because they are Jews.

EDIT: typos

---

No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.

Just bear in mind that there are many more "Hizbullah" now then there were a few weeks ago.

---

Just bear in mind that there are many more "Hizbullah" now then there were a few weeks ago.

Even if that is true....So?

Whenever a war starts both sides attempt to increase their numbers. What has that to do with anything?

Just bear in mind that there are many more "Hizbullah" now then there were a few weeks ago.

I would prefer 100,000 disorganized and unarmed angry youths to 2,000 well-armed paramilitary troops, especially in an environment where people have economically viable alternatives to war.

Chances are that the vast majority of the 100,000 would become interested in something else before they could form a group as dangerous as Hezbollah.

---

No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.

Hezbollah chief Sheik Hassan Nasrallah has publically stated that it would be a good idea to deploy 15,000 Lebanese troops to southern Lebanon even before a cease-fire is declared.

Could this be because a Lebanese military presence would erradicate Hezbollah? Hard to picture Nasrallah going for that idea.

Could this be because Nasrallah believes that the Lebanese Army would join his group in repelling Israeli forces? Maybe, but it's a longshot.

Could this be because Hezbollah is looking for a fresh supply of human shields to hide behind? Hmmmmmmmm.

---

No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.

Could this be because Hezbollah is looking for a fresh supply of human shields to hide behind? Hmmmmmmmm.

Exactly. Consider also that with enough accidentally killed Lebanese soldiers he can bolster his image as the aspiring future leader. Additionally with enough public outrage over collateral damage to the Lebanese military the more difficult it would be for the government army to summon the will to act against the Hezbollah forces at the Litani river or anywhere else.

---

Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Here is an interview on the Rupert Murdoch news channel with one of our MPs here in the UK. It's quite a passionate interview, you have been warned...
George Galloway Wipes the Floor with Sky News anchor

---

Here is an interview on the Rupert Murdoch news channel with one of our MPs here in the UK. It's quite a passionate interview, you have been warned...
George Galloway Wipes the Floor with Sky News anchor

That wasn't reporting, that was cheerleading.

It was obviously not objective nor useful because it didn't cite one well-formed argument by either participant of the interview.

It does, however, illustrate that whoever runs that website can derive pleasure from watching someone misbehave on television. We have professional wrestling for that. Leave politics to someone who can take it seriously.

---

No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.

That MP does what all defenders of Hezbollah do, Hev. He engages in moral equivalency between the protagonists. I also don't think he'd know a fact if I taped a notecard of them onto a 2" by " and smacked him upside the head with it.
---------------------------------

Can you explain about the 'Respect' MP title he holds? I'm unfamiliar with that term and presume it is a minor party there?

---

Founder of BOINC team Objectivists. Oh the humanity! Rational people crunching data!
I did NOT authorize this belly writing!

Bush and Blair politically " set up " this situation?

This guy's cheese has fallen off his cracker I think.

---

Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome