You can snip my comments all you want, but we weren't AT WAR!!!! ( as you put it ) until a deliberate and cowardly attack brought the war about.

These days, the polite formal declaration of war is long-gone. Al Qaeda's been after us since at least 1993, with the first attack on the WTC. What was the reason for that? One thing heard is that Western countries occupied Middle Eastern countries during Operation Desert Storm. If that's really one of their reasons, whether it makes sense or not, then that's what they believe ... and what they believe justifies their subsequent actions.

I'm sure things go back even further. 40 years. Then 2-3 millenia. And so on ... .

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Capitalize on this good fortune, one word can bring you round ... changes.

Sometimes I wonder whether some Christian Fundamentalists not only believe in the End Times and the coming of the Apocalypse, they are actually seeking to bring it about, particularly in the Middle East.

I think this is a strong possibility. Why is Christian fundamentalism so much stronger in the USA than elsewhere? (Or, is it?)

Actually, Christian Fundamentalism, or rather Charismatic Christianity, is doing rather well in the rest of the world both outside the U.S.A and outside Western Europe, particularly in the Southern Hemisphere, such as Sub-Saharan Africa, and South America. Orthodox Christianity has also enjoyed a revival in Eastern Europe, particularly since the fall of Communism - in Russia and the Balkans.
However, it seems to be on the decline in Western Europe, including the UK. Moreover, religious fundamentalists in this country don't seem to have the same political 'muscle' as they might have in the U.S - provided I'm right about that.

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'No one can make you inferior without your consent.'
Eleanor Roosevelt.

provided I'm right about that.

You are... I've been trying to warn people for years... Something tells me that they won't see it until it's too late...

From the Prophets Sunnah (Book of Knowledge 3:13:71):

From among the portents of the hour are the following:

1. Religious knowledge will decrease (by the death of religious learned men).

2. Religious ignorance will prevail.

3. Drinking of alcoholic drinks will be very common.

4. There will be prevalence of open illegal sexual intercourse.

Prediction number 1 would explain why so many people were left jobless and homeless following 911... Prediction number 2 would explain why 'evangelical christianity' has grown so rapidly... And, well, I won't even touch predictions 3 and 4, but a certain generation does come to mind, and oddly enough, they are the ones running (or ruining) the country at the moment... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

provided I'm right about that.

You are... I've been trying to warn people for years... Something tells me that they won't see it until it's too late...

From the Prophets Sunnah (Book of Knowledge 3:13:71):

From among the portents of the hour are the following:

1. Religious knowledge will decrease (by the death of religious learned men).

2. Religious ignorance will prevail.

3. Drinking of alcoholic drinks will be very common.

4. There will be prevalence of open illegal sexual intercourse.

Prediction number 1 would explain why so many people were left jobless and homeless following 911... Prediction number 2 would explain why 'evangelical christianity' has grown so rapidly... And, well, I won't even touch predictions 3 and 4, but a certain generation does come to mind, and oddly enough, they are the ones running (or ruining) the country at the moment... ;)

How does any decrease in religious knowledge relate to 911 and joblessness/homelessness?

Bring out some stats that back up your statements.

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How does any decrease in religious knowledge relate to 911 and joblessness/homelessness?

(by the death of religious learned men)

No job = no home= no food = no life = DEATH...

Man, we really do have some 'reading comprehension' issues around here... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

How does any decrease in religious knowledge relate to 911 and joblessness/homelessness?

(by the death of religious learned men)

No job = no home= no food = no life = DEATH...

Man, we really do have some 'reading comprehension' issues around here... ;)

Maybe so, but which side is it on? Again, what "religious learned men" died, causing this great decrease in religious knowledge to bring about 911 and all the joblessness/homelessness you speak of?

Your equation completely leaves out what your "prophet" is talking about, i.e., religion.

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provided I'm right about that.

You are... I've been trying to warn people for years... Something tells me that they won't see it until it's too late...

From the Prophets Sunnah (Book of Knowledge 3:13:71):

From among the portents of the hour are the following:

1. Religious knowledge will decrease (by the death of religious learned men).

2. Religious ignorance will prevail.

3. Drinking of alcoholic drinks will be very common.

4. There will be prevalence of open illegal sexual intercourse.

I'm sorry..I'm failing to see the bad side here.

Prediction number 1 would explain why so many people were left jobless and homeless following 911... Prediction number 2 would explain why 'evangelical christianity' has grown so rapidly... And, well, I won't even touch predictions 3 and 4, but a certain generation does come to mind, and oddly enough, they are the ones running (or ruining) the country at the moment... ;)

Not sure about this death of religious men in 911..I thought it was mainly* stockbrokers that were killed.


*Pleae note..I said mainly- before all those people come in and tell me about all the firemen and cleaners and other innocent people etc etc that also died.

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Reality Internet Personality

How does any decrease in religious knowledge relate to 911 and joblessness/homelessness?

(by the death of religious learned men)

No job = no home= no food = no life = DEATH...

Man, we really do have some 'reading comprehension' issues around here... ;)

Ummm...I must be one of the ones who doesn't read well.

Who exactly were the " religious learned men " who died and started the downfall?

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Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

Not sure about this death of religious men in 911..I thought it was mainly* stockbrokers that were killed.


*Pleae note..I said mainly- before all those people come in and tell me about all the firemen and cleaners and other innocent people etc etc that also died.

Good call on the footnote....lol

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Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

BTW, to Chuck, after examining the link you provided to landoverbaptist.org, it is pretty clear the site is meant to be a farce. The stuff there is both funny and sad.

Yes, and they are making a farce out of baptists and bible thumpers. However, trying to dismiss the site as some teenage prank in bad taste would be a mistake. There are indeed people like that in your country. What frightens me is that there are flocks and flocks of braindead that go to attend 'Jerry Falwell' etc. That's all you need - brainwashed idiots who will follow whatever a religious leader tells them 'deciding' on policy and 'voting' for a leader.


Palomar jack - you really shouldn't type anything until you have the least little clue on what you're talking about. Labelling something as being the same thing as its antithesis is an immature and childish trick. Only the stupid are taken in by it. How can Atheism be a religion when religion and its defining tenets are antithesis to it? Religion demands that you have faith. Science demands that you NOT have faith, that everything must be proven. Are you so myopic that you can't see those opposites? Religion demands that you accept statements from higher Authority - ancient men who wrote books. Men who are the religious leaders in your community today - who studied not much more than their own 'holy' books. Whereas, in science, teachers and authorities may show you the way, but you are never to accept anything on their say-so. The proof is always available for independent verification.
If you are young, I can understand that you may have not yet been exposed to this. If you're over 23, then you need to pick up some books, because you're woefully uninformed.

Your problem is the same as many others who have no clue what science really is. You equate it to your tiny world of religion, where any one religion is the same as any other: unprovable fantasy. But science, the corollary of which is atheism, is not the same. It isn't equal. All in it must be proven, otherwise it isn't science.

If you don't want to be educated, then go on and continue in your ignorance. Have a long chat with jeffrey; you'll find him a bird of a feather. I, however, cannot sit idly by while utter MORONS try to dumb down the world's population. I, for one, find the TRUTH far better for people than some comforting fantasy or other. (Others will find exactly that sentiment in the COSMOS TV series if you look. Check for Carl Sagan when he's on a boat on a slow creek, with trees above him, and the camera below. Episode 6 or 7 or thereabouts.)

I sure don't need any help, Jack. As a martial artist, I can easily relax each and every day! My entire life is relaxed. If you don't like my campaigning against stupidity and ignorance, too effing bad. Go climb a tree. I won't let brainwashing religious twits gain even an inch on people's freedom to think. You are only a little better than them - you apathetically don't care whether others are raised in ignorance or not.

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Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy.

i better say nothing in this thread, or i'll have another fatwa issued for my head on a plate.:(

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I AM NOT FAT! I AM BIG-BONED!

Who exactly were the " religious learned men " who died and started the downfall?

Do you have a better explanation as to why all those people lost their jobs and filled up ALL of the homeless shelters in the weeks following 911? Maybe they were ALL 'terrorists'...

And before you say that didn't happen... Where did Homeland Security, specifically TSA, find the billion or so employees in such a short time... Hmm... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

i better say nothing in this thread, or i'll have another fatwa issued for my head on a plate.:(

Hope that doesn't happen, but if it does, can I have the rest of your body :)

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flaming balloons

How can Atheism be a religion

atheism:

The doctrine or belief that there is no God.

;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .

How can Atheism be a religion

atheism:

The doctrine or belief that there is no God.

No that's wrong. "The belief that there is no deity".

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flaming balloons

Who exactly were the " religious learned men " who died and started the downfall?

Do you have a better explanation as to why all those people lost their jobs and filled up ALL of the homeless shelters in the weeks following 911? Maybe they were ALL 'terrorists'...

And before you say that didn't happen... Where did Homeland Security, specifically TSA, find the billion or so employees in such a short time... Hmm... ;)

Jeff,

Ifyou want to make a claim like the one you made, you should have at least a LITTLE proof.

Who were they. If they were " learned"men, then surely someone can say who those men were.

Or were the "learned, religious " men hiding??

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Air Cold, the blade stops;
from silent stone,
Death is preordained

Calm Chaos Forums : Everyone Welcome

Whoa... pretty heavy over here.. (backing out, looking over my shoulder..)

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Mrs. Miggins: The Scarlet Pimpernel, Mr. Blackadder! He's so exciting, don't you think?
Blackadder: Actually, I think he's the most over-rated human being since Judas Iscariot won the AD31 Best Disciple Competition.

Who exactly were the " religious learned men " who died and started the downfall?

Do you have a better explanation as to why all those people lost their jobs and filled up ALL of the homeless shelters in the weeks following 911? Maybe they were ALL 'terrorists'...

And before you say that didn't happen... Where did Homeland Security, specifically TSA, find the billion or so employees in such a short time... Hmm... ;)

Jeff,

Ifyou want to make a claim like the one you made, you should have at least a LITTLE proof.

Who were they. If they were " learned"men, then surely someone can say who those men were.

Or were the "learned, religious " men hiding??

Knightmare, On a charitable interpretation, I think Jeffrey could be referring to the Ulama, that group of Muslim scholars who interpreted the Qu'ran and helped to draw up laws through their interpretation. I am not sure if they still exist today. The interepretation I am reading into this is that the men who carried out the September, 11th massacre had no real knowledge of Islam, since it is no longer being interpreted properly by modern scholars.!!!!

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'No one can make you inferior without your consent.'
Eleanor Roosevelt.

Whoa... pretty heavy over here.. (backing out, looking over my shoulder..)

Probably a good move Brian. I told myself not to get involved, held off for weeks, but eventually did.

Not that I'm regretting it now, just that now I've got another thread to monitor.

As the old saying goes, "Fools rush in where wise men fear to tread". I hope, for your sake, you're one of the wise ones.

Labbie

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I think Jeffrey could be referring to [snip]

I'm referring to all the American people across the country who lost their jobs and were forced to move their families into homeless shelters until even the shelters were turning them away due to overcrowding... I'd really like to know what that had to do with the events of 911... ;)

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It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . .