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Mac Girl. Send message Joined: 15 Mar 06 Posts: 679 Credit: 15,042 RAC: 0 |
Susan that is right. I was right about those words. Good. Susan. 'No one can make you inferior without your consent.' Eleanor Roosevelt. |
Es99 Send message Joined: 23 Aug 05 Posts: 10874 Credit: 350,402 RAC: 0 |
Es99 Why not? Many religions in the past (and present) have used psychotropic substances to get in touch with the sacred. Some mushroom tea and a bit of drumming seems a lot easier to me than all the abstinence and self denial practiced by some religions...and a lot more fun. Reality Internet Personality |
Troy Stull Send message Joined: 21 Jun 06 Posts: 264 Credit: 46,144 RAC: 0 |
Captain Avatar, Even with a Savior its still your responsability to grow. You don't just get to say 'I like Jesus' and then sit on the couch for the next 200 years. /Central Florida Astronomical Society |
Carl Cuseo Send message Joined: 18 Jan 02 Posts: 652 Credit: 34,312 RAC: 0 |
>>>....and then sit on the couch for the next 200 years. Troy- I'm thinking a biblical librarian could find a reference. Couch-200 years? hmmm It might just be in there...cc |
BillHyland Send message Joined: 30 Apr 04 Posts: 907 Credit: 5,764,172 RAC: 0 |
Captain Avatar, In the New Testament, James 2:26, the verse reads, "For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." I believe this is same concept that Capt. Avatar mentioned from the Buddhist tradition. The problem with the "few glasses of wine" method or taking the drugs is that getting drunk disconnects you from yourself. The object is to connect with yourself. My belief is that religion and religious experiences (excluding the obvious scams, power seekers, mountebanks, etc.) tend to unify groups. Meditation and prayer tend to have positive physical effects when practiced properly. It is established that those who have done the hard work to gain the "centered" state are capable of extraordinary physical and mental feats. Anyone who has watched a Shaolin Gung Fu master can attest to that. I place this in the "obvious survival benefit" category. |
Mac Girl. Send message Joined: 15 Mar 06 Posts: 679 Credit: 15,042 RAC: 0 |
Mr Hyland, My 'glasses of wine'joke was really just that, I decided to keep it lighthearted. I have read the book by Thomas Keating and he goes into a lot of detail. The method involves attempting to clear out the subconscious mind and slow the mind's 'traffic' down so that we can see clearly. Keating referred to it as 'the unloading of the unconscious' and our minds' traffic as 'the stream of consciousness.' Centering involved trying to clear out all the dross in our minds so we can perceive more clearly. It's a method of integration. No glasses of wine can do that, I know. lol. Sue. 'No one can make you inferior without your consent.' Eleanor Roosevelt. |
Jeffrey Send message Joined: 21 Nov 03 Posts: 4793 Credit: 26,029 RAC: 0 |
I'm thinking a biblical librarian could find a reference. II Thessalonians 3:6-7 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to imitate us; we were not idle when we were with you... ;) It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . . |
Carl Cuseo Send message Joined: 18 Jan 02 Posts: 652 Credit: 34,312 RAC: 0 |
Hey Jeff- You're gettin' there man Couch- Idleness Certainly you're on the right track. Hook up 200 years with Idleness, couch, sloth, heedlessness Or however you read it- And you've made another indsiputable point. Praise be to the Bible-thumpers May they thump Ad Nausem. Never give up All you've got to lose Is your sanity...cc |
Jeffrey Send message Joined: 21 Nov 03 Posts: 4793 Credit: 26,029 RAC: 0 |
Psalms 6:7-8 I am weary with my moaning; every night I flood my bed with tears; I drench my couch with my weeping. My eye wastes away because of grief, it grows weak because of all my foes. ;) It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . . |
Chuck Send message Joined: 1 Dec 05 Posts: 511 Credit: 532,682 RAC: 0 |
your faith in your self worthHere's an error. Not everybody has faith in their self worth. I am one who looks at the people around me that my life touches to see if I have worth to them. If I do things that helps them and not harm them, then I have self-worth. No faith in there. If I do things that harms and damages them, then what worth do I have? If I were to harm, in some measure, everyone I meet, then wouldn't I be better off dead? I see no 'faith' in there anywhere. Science, as a tool, is the most effective tool by far in discovering the truth. Why would you need faith and hope to place yourself within that truth? Look at it scientifically, without 'faith'. Without 'hope'. Then you can see things as they truly are. You can see yourself in there, where you are, and what you can do to further your species along. If you prefer to set up a fantasy and then follow it, making yourself the most important thing in "creation", then you hold back our species understanding of reality. Then you are an enemy of mankind. Every religious twit in here that puts forth their ideology for a being that can't be proven is holding back humanity's development. Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy. |
Jeffrey Send message Joined: 21 Nov 03 Posts: 4793 Credit: 26,029 RAC: 0 |
wouldn't I be better off dead? Is this a trick question? ;) It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . . |
BillHyland Send message Joined: 30 Apr 04 Posts: 907 Credit: 5,764,172 RAC: 0 |
your faith in your self worthHere's an error. Not everybody has faith in their self worth. I am one who looks at the people around me that my life touches to see if I have worth to them. If I do things that helps them and not harm them, then I have self-worth. No faith in there. If I do things that harms and damages them, then what worth do I have? If I were to harm, in some measure, everyone I meet, then wouldn't I be better off dead? I see no 'faith' in there anywhere. Who makes the judgment call as to whether you have helped or done harm? If it is primarily you, then you are mistaken in your assessment that you do not have (and rely on) faith in yourself. |
Chuck Send message Joined: 1 Dec 05 Posts: 511 Credit: 532,682 RAC: 0 |
More baloney, (and utter nonsense from jeffrey, of course). What, can't you tell in looking at someone whether their life is better or worse for your having been in it? You're pretty damn blind if you can't tell - but then, if you're of a religious bent, I could see why you'd wear rose-colored glasses! All the religious people I have ever come across think it's doing you the world of good if they can just convert you and 'save your soul'. Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy. |
Qui-Gon Send message Joined: 15 May 99 Posts: 2940 Credit: 19,199,902 RAC: 11 |
More baloney, (and utter nonsense from jeffrey, of course). All right, I get it, you are not religious. Then why do you come into a thread that is titled "Religious Thread" and variously insult, rant and argue with the people in this thread who are religious or are interested in discussing religious issues? I consider myself to be fairly religious, yet I have absolutely no desire to convert you to my way of thinking. I learned long ago that the only way people ever truly embrace the teaching that all religions make available, is if the person chooses to do so. In fact, your coming here and arguing with those of us who do hold religious beliefs is exactly the same thing that you just complained about when you referred to people who try to "convert you and save your soul". Only in your case, you are trying to convert others to your view:, that religion is irrelevant. |
Mac Girl. Send message Joined: 15 Mar 06 Posts: 679 Credit: 15,042 RAC: 0 |
It's interesting, but when I look at different 'religions', some have had a tradition of trying to convert and others have not. Judaism and Hinduism have never traditionally tried to convert people from outside, but others, such as Islam do. This in turn is also a little simplistic. When I look at Christianity, there are many different branches within it; again some of them, such as the Witnesses, and the Mormons, do seek converts, and others like the Quakers do not. And then you get those denominations that are a little in-between about it. So I think it is fair to say that not all religious people seek to convert. Regards, Susan. 'No one can make you inferior without your consent.' Eleanor Roosevelt. |
Jeffrey Send message Joined: 21 Nov 03 Posts: 4793 Credit: 26,029 RAC: 0 |
It's interesting, but when I look at different 'religions', some have had a tradition of trying to convert and others have not. [snip] but others, such as Islam do. That's odd because the Qur'an itself states that Jews are to continue following the Torah and that Christians are to continue following the Gospels... Maybe you should read it sometime... ;) It may not be 1984 but George Orwell sure did see the future . . . |
Chuck Send message Joined: 1 Dec 05 Posts: 511 Credit: 532,682 RAC: 0 |
Only in your case, you are trying to convert others to your view:, that religion is irrelevant Error: 'my view'. It's not my view. It's what actually, verifiably, IS. That's the difference between the 'view' you have, based on faith, and proof. It's not me who determines religion is irrelevant - it simply IS irrelevant (at best) and destructive at worst. And that's why I'm talking in here: to stop the madness. I wouldn't give the least little damn to leave religious idiots to their own devices if they only harmed each other, but sadly, they harm intelligent people too. Quite badly, by making them ignorant. If it were not for religion, we would probably be travelling to the stars by now, and we would probably have no wars either. So, yes, I'll come in here and expose the worst scourge this world has ever seen. The stupididty of religion. Never Forget a Friend. Or an Enemy. |
BillHyland Send message Joined: 30 Apr 04 Posts: 907 Credit: 5,764,172 RAC: 0 |
Only in your case, you are trying to convert others to your view:, that religion is irrelevant Yes, if only science and scientists ruled the world it would be Utopia! Dr. Mengela would certainly agree with you. The above was bitterly sarcastic, I know. I made the statement to illuminate one absurd statement with another. Religious or not, people are as they are. No group is free from bias, idiocy or just plane madness. Not even scientists. |
RichaG Send message Joined: 20 May 99 Posts: 1690 Credit: 19,287,294 RAC: 36 |
It's interesting, but when I look at different 'religions', some have had a tradition of trying to convert and others have not. [snip] but others, such as Islam do. If they aren't killed first! :-) Red Bull Air Racing Gas price by zip at Seti |
Mac Girl. Send message Joined: 15 Mar 06 Posts: 679 Credit: 15,042 RAC: 0 |
If all religious belief were swept away, I am not sure if the world would be a better place. When I see the atrocities that have been committed in the name of secular ideologies, such as Communism or Nazism, or what has been done in the name of politics or social engineering, I think it is a mistake to make such a bogey out of religion. 'No one can make you inferior without your consent.' Eleanor Roosevelt. |
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