Text of David Andersons mail from the "love in" thread that is the self appointed Friends of Seti.
=========================
Bruno:

Thanks for the pointer.
I'm glad someone is defending us!

The transition of SETI@home to BOINC has been difficult.
BOINC is so much more complicated than the original SETI@home,
and yet our manpower is very limited (2 people - me and Rom).
I felt we had to do the public launch when we did,
because the beta test had gone on for so long,
and yet there were still lots of problems.
We (SETI@home) then had some bad luck with hardware failures.

In the last month I've been working on enabling new
BOINC-based projects - notably Climateprediction.net -
because I think this is the future.
Rom, Jeff and Matt have been working long days to keep
SETI@home/BOINC going, and they're close to succeeding.

I greatly appreciate the support of you, Sir Ulli,
and all the other "non-negative" participants.

-- David
==================
BOINC is so much more complicated than the original SETI@home,
and yet our manpower is very limited (2 people - me and Rom).
======================
I'm sure he also meant to include those of you out there who speant many frustrating hours beta testing the work he and Rom were carrying out. Or did he..

The team of two suddenly becomes a trio with Mr Anderson off somewhere else.

All I ever wanted was information about what is happening - something this team of devs is unable or unwilling to do.

He is right with one thing - The future is climate prediction or Predictor or something other than the shambles of Seti.

Edit - I would like to say that it is the clever developer who introduces an properly tested new system. Granted there may be some small glitches. It is they who rarely get praised because everything is so seamless.

It is easy to praise those who are fixing a system that is this broke. They are making great progress its just that all this should have been fixed before going live.

Praise where praise is due - but not here

> Text of David Andersons mail from the "love in" thread that is the self
> appointed Friends of Seti.
> =========================
> Bruno:
>
> Thanks for the pointer.
> I'm glad someone is defending us!
>
> The transition of SETI@home to BOINC has been difficult.
> BOINC is so much more complicated than the original SETI@home,
> and yet our manpower is very limited (2 people - me and Rom).
> I felt we had to do the public launch when we did,
> because the beta test had gone on for so long,
> and yet there were still lots of problems.
> We (SETI@home) then had some bad luck with hardware failures.
>
> In the last month I've been working on enabling new
> BOINC-based projects - notably Climateprediction.net -
> because I think this is the future.
> Rom, Jeff and Matt have been working long days to keep
> SETI@home/BOINC going, and they're close to succeeding.
>
> I greatly appreciate the support of you, Sir Ulli,
> and all the other "non-negative" participants.
>
> -- David
> ==================
> BOINC is so much more complicated than the original SETI@home,
> and yet our manpower is very limited (2 people - me and Rom).
> ======================
> I'm sure he also meant to include those of you out there who speant many
> frustrating hours beta testing the work he and Rom were carrying out. Or did
> he..
>
> The team of two suddenly becomes a trio with Mr Anderson off somewhere else.
>
> All I ever wanted was information about what is happening - something this
> team of devs is unable or unwilling to do.
>
> He is right with one thing - The future is climate prediction or Predictor or
> something other than the shambles of Seti.
>
> Edit - I would like to say that it is the clever developer who introduces an
> properly tested new system. Granted there may be some small glitches. It is
> they who rarely get praised because everything is so seamless.
>
> It is easy to praise those who are fixing a system that is this broke. They
> are making great progress its just that all this should have been fixed before
> going live.
>
> Praise where praise is due - but not here
>
I believe this message by Dr. Anderson is a fake! I have a friend that KNOWS him and he does not talk like that! He also doesn't make mistakes like mentioning the ONLY 2 people on the project by name in the first paragragh and then mentioning 3 OTHERS by name in the second paragragh!
Dr. Anderson is a very articulate man, he would not say things like this in a public forum nor knowingly let words like this get out into the public. He would NEVER talk bad about a Seti project IN ANY WAY!
This is a crude hoax and a fake!!!

Well, you can thank this user for posting it on this thread. He's a charter member and club officer of the cheerleaders. As Leutenant Worf would say, "they have no honor."

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mikey wrote:
> I believe this message by Dr. Anderson is a fake!
> This is a crude hoax and a fake!!!

Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat.

Thanks for the insults to a gentleman,
gossip-taliban-coyote-mikey!

I'm not a liar and coward motherfucker.
I'm not child of your mother.

"It is better to be silent and be thought a fool,
than to speak and remove all doubt."
Mark Twain

"Assignment of the Science is not to open a door to endless know,
but to set a barrier to the endless ignorance."
Galileo Galilei by Bertolt Brecht


Clear skies from SETI Italia [/url]

OK, then you're saying it's genuine. So I guess that, "I greatly appreciate the support of you, Sir Ulli,
and all the other "non-negative" participants" means that the volunteers that are critical should do a stage exit left out the door. Where's the thank you for all the hard work done by the everyone else?

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Allow me to try to clarify some of David's comments. I'm away on vacation now visiting the folks - they're in a different time zone so my schedule is all out of whack and nobody is up yet. Anyway..

Please remember that SETI and BOINC are two entirely separate entities. BOINC is the generalized distributed computing infrastructure, and SETI is but one of many projects that use BOINC as its framework. Other projects, like the climate modeling, and protein folding, etc. will run on top of BOINC as well.

That said, by the "future" he meant the future of BOINC - the use of which would be greatly increased if other scientific projects join in the BOINC community. SETI isn't going anywhere. It's been around for decades, is incredible bang-for-your-buck science, and we still haven't found anything yet. Plus, one of the benefits of BOINC is allowing users to compute for several projects. This way when SETI runs out of work from time to time people can spin their CPUs doing other things than overly redundant SETI workunits.

Regarding the staff. There's a lot of crossover between us, but basically speaking, David and Rom are the two main BOINC developers, with occasional input from Jeff, Eric, and myself. But don't count me as a developer - I'm more of a finisher than a starter - so my input for BOINC can be filed under debugging or maybe some small feature adding. The other guys are the stars of this show.

Jeff and I are also the main sysadmins, along with recent addition Court to our team. By default Jeff and I get rolled into BOINC service by all our running around trying to keep all the servers afloat, which requires some knowledge of how the BOINC front and back end works.

Then there's the actual science. Dan is the chief scientist calling the shots (and building all the data collecting hardware), Eric is the guru who is equally adept in rocket science and programming to help bridge a lot of gaps, and Jeff and I do a bunch of the programming. Basically Eric and Jeff write all the backend SETI server stuff, and I keep busy writing the data mining code in my copious free time.

Also on the team is Bob who is the resident DBA. He, Jeff, Eric, and myself are all part time either due to actual time spent at the lab, or working actively on other non-SETI projects around the lab. I myself only work 80% time working up here, as I have a whole other career which occupies the rest of my time - a delicate balance to be sure.

There's also Aaron who works with Dan on the home-grown hardware, and the valuable efforts various undergrad students who fill the lab every summer.

But that's about it. No tech support staff, no administrative staff. When it comes time to write grant proposals so we could continue for another year or so everybody drops everything and works together on that. Dan and I deal with all the accounting as well. Fun.

Okay. That's a rough idea of how things work around here. I'm sure I'm forgetting some things, but my family is starting to wake up and I must go and keep them company.

- Matt


BOINC/SETI@home

> Allow me to try to clarify some of David's comments.
> - Matt

> BOINC/SETI@home


Thanks Matt to have confirmed that I'm not a liar.

You have saved the honor of a musician! ;-)

This evening I will play my Fender Stratocaster for you. ;-)


Clear skies from SETI Italia [/url]

Sigh...Have we sunken so Low that we need to even Attack Dr. Anderson...Even though I may be known in the Forum as a Whiner from time to time "I like to think of it as Point Blank Constructive Criticism ;)" this is even to Low for me to go...I respect Dr. Anderson and say lay off him...

Some of you are not even running Boinc Seti any more but you seem to still find the time to come into the S@H Forum and you keep stirring the pot in an attempt to get it to boil over ...

JOIN TEAM
[/url]

Just read the e-mail. Is it that he didn't mean what he said or didn't say what he means? Heaven forbid someone should be critical. BTW, the time I've put into this project gives me the right to post here, just as you have that right.

P.S. Taking 10 minutes or less each day to inform 40,000 volunteers is not asking too much. The Predictor and Climate Devs manage it somehow, and I'm sure that they're also quite busy.

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BTW, the time I've put into this project gives me the right to post here, just as you have that right.
==========

Yes you do Dogbytes, nobodys disputing that, the same as AZ Woody does. But from your recent posting one can only come to the conclusion that now your Ultimate Goal in Life is to Destroy the S@H Project...So I guess we can all just lump the 2 of you together and consider the 2 of you as 1 ...

Wrong. For months on end during and after the Alpha/Beta phase I virtually begged Rom to have SSL release information to the participants and keep everyone informed on a daily basis, ask him. This was an on going mantra on my part, ask him. I warned them, through Rom that they would have a disaster on their hands if they didn't do something about keeping people in the dark, ask him. With all the posts being made on the boards, how many people felt like anyone at SSL (excepting ROM) was listening.

On the contrary, I want to see this project succeed. It sickens me to see how things have degenerated from what was a promising, albeit premature start of the Seti/Boinc project. I do not want to see this project fail, but goose stepping in formation over a cliff, blindly shouting the praises of an organization doesn't help either.

Getting very little feed back from both positive and negative input has left us where we are now. As i posted earlier: "Taking 10 minutes or less each day to inform 40,000 volunteers is not asking too much. The Predictor and Climate Devs manage it somehow, and I'm sure that they're also quite busy."

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mikey wrote:
> I believe this message by Dr. Anderson is a fake!
> This is a crude hoax and a fake!!!

At the end of the pathetic and childish telenovela,
the liars have the long nose.

[/url]

On the contrary, I want to see this project succeed. It sickens me to see how things have degenerated from what was a promising, albeit premature start of the Set/Boinc project. I do not want to see this project fail, but goose stepping in formation over a cliff shouting the praises of an organization doesn't help either.
==========

Thats good Dogbytes and mirrors my feelings quite a bit...I am quite distressed at the way this Project has been handled from the start ever since it went Live...That is the reason my posting can be quite Brutal & Frank at times also.

I don't think everybody should be running around throwing out Flower Pedals & Singing Praise's to the High Heavens on how Great the Project is running either...

But I draw the Line on certain things and Attacking Dr. Anderson is one of them...

so much conspiracy theory...

First of all some people apparently can read minds and therefore know excactly why some others join a certain club. I guess some ajustment of the mindreading antennas would be in order...

Secondly an e-mai is pronounced a hoax. I personnally don't know if it is, and I definately don't believe that anyone else other than two really knows that.


PoorBoy:

"But I draw the Line on certain things and Attacking Dr. Anderson is one of them... "

I agree with this, and that is why _I_ joined the club... If that means I'll be attacked as being totally ignorant about the things that doesn't work and isn't perfect, so be it - although I'm not, but I'm not totally ignorant to the fact that other things DOES work and that the dev.-team(s) on seti@home and boinc actually do what they can to resolve the problems either.

A coin has two sides. Some accuse others of only staring at one side of it, some accuse others for only staring at the other side. Wether or not the accusations are true, nobody seems to believe that it is possible to look at both sides. It is possible, and, although I've failed to, that's what I've tried to point out.


S@h Berkeley's Staff Friends Club © member

Why can't we leave the poor people who are trying to get this project off the ground alone.

Does anyone ever thank them when there are wu's available?

All I see are people complaining when there is not enough.

So just let them get on with it.

> On the contrary, I want to see this project succeed. It sickens me to see how
> things have degenerated from what was a promising, albeit premature start of
> the Set/Boinc project. I do not want to see this project fail, but goose
> stepping in formation over a cliff shouting the praises of an organization
> doesn't help either.
> ==========
>
> Thats good Dogbytes and mirrors my feelings quite a bit...I am quite
> distressed at the way this Project has been handled from the start ever since
> it went Live...That is the reason my posting can be quite Brutal & Frank
> at times also.
>
> I don't think everybody should be running around throwing out Flower Pedals
> & Singing Praise's to the High Heavens on how Great the Project is running
> either...
>
> But I draw the Line on certain things and Attacking Dr. Anderson is one of
> them...
>
>
Could you please direct me to where I "attacked" Dr. Anderson. Don't his words and the group to whom he directed them speak for themselves. Making reference to them, in and of itself, is not indicative of an attack. If I was attacking the gentleman, I would have used much harsher works. Have I been critical of some of his actions, yes.

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> Wrong. For months on end during and after the Alpha/Beta phase I virtually
> begged Rom to have SSL release information to the participants and keep
> everyone informed on a daily basis, ask him. This was an on going mantra on
> my part, ask him. I warned them, through Rom that they would have a disaster
> on their hands if they didn't do something about keeping people in the dark,
> ask him. With all the posts being made on the boards, how many people felt
> like anyone at SSL (excepting ROM) was listening.

Do not see the connection between the hardware and software failures and people getting detailed info .....
>
> On the contrary, I want to see this project succeed. It sickens me to see how
> things have degenerated from what was a promising, albeit premature start of
> the Seti/Boinc project. I do not want to see this project fail, but goose
> stepping in formation over a cliff, blindly shouting the praises of an
> organization doesn't help either.

Now we are Nazis, goose steping over cliffs, come on Dogbytes that was a little slanderous don't you think. You warned Rom so that labels you as a negative person always looking for doom and gloom..... As I see it only .05% of the people in the dark, even bother to read anything that is posted on the front page and god forbid, they look at anything else that might help them.....I am a cheerleader looking ahead positively at the future and will remain one until the last WUWU is crunched.

BOINCs future is so bright it will need to wear shades... S@h Berkeley's Staff Friends Club ©[/b]

Who said anything about Nazi's. As a matter of fact many different countries militaries have used that form of marching, but like the first three letters of the word "assume" indicate, you jump to all the wrong conclusions.

Have a nice day cheerleader, rah rah.

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> Now we are Nazis, goose steping over cliffs, come on Dogbytes that was a
> little slanderous don't you think.

While I do tend to agree with you Pascal, I regret to inform you that you have invoked Godwin's Law and this thread is hereby officially terminated.

Everyone just move along... nothing to see here.



-------------------------------------------
- A member of The Knights Who Say NI!
Possibly the best stats site in the universe:
http://boinc-kwsn.no-ip.info

> Now we are Nazis, goose steping over cliffs, come on Dogbytes that was a
> little slanderous don't you think. You warned Rom so that labels you as a
> negative person always looking for doom and gloom.....

Pascal, this is a bit of a stretch even for you. You are the one jumping to conclusions here.

Goose stepping does not equal Nazi...

I agree with Toby. Thread terminated, improper inference squad notified.