Message boards :
Number crunching :
Strike requests
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Author | Message |
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BlkJack-21 Send message Joined: 31 Aug 99 Posts: 108 Credit: 2,288,501 RAC: 0 |
Doh.........I didn't mean to pull the plug on your strike! Please continue the strike. While your at it some here need to learn what a strike is. @Matt not sure who you are referring to. @Geek@Play you are right..The words "Strike" and "Boycott" are probably not the best choice of words to describe. A "demonstration" would better describe what has transpired. |
RDC Send message Joined: 17 May 99 Posts: 544 Credit: 1,215,728 RAC: 0 |
Did the topic of this thread change? The "requests", as well as the answers that have been posted here effect us all and all should have a say in it. To truly explore, one must keep an open mind... |
KB7RZF Send message Joined: 15 Aug 99 Posts: 9549 Credit: 3,308,926 RAC: 2 |
I see Eric posted a very detailed and awesome message that I think everyone should read. Was it off topic? I don't think so.I agree that Eric answered on a point by point basis what was asked of him, that's not what I was refering to when I asked "Did the topic of this thread change"? And unfortunately, as I stated below, not to be rude or come off sounding "anti", do you really expect people to adhear to the wishes of the topic of this thread? Just on this first page of threads, every one of them has something off topic. Asking people not to post in a thread that they don't like is just asking for more of them to post. Back to being on topic, I wish everyone well with their strike. IF thats what you feel will correct things, enjoy. Personally, I see no point, I see the reasonings, but no point. Even if everyone on the forums quit crunching SETI, I honestly doubt that it will make anyone listen. This is not meant as a flame, a put down, or anything else you can think of. This is just a biased post, not negative, not positive, not for, and not against. Do as you wish. Once again, I wish you all well in your travels with the strike. |
Pappa Send message Joined: 9 Jan 00 Posts: 2562 Credit: 12,301,681 RAC: 0 |
Steve Please go "Google" for Eric's email address. Then please present the "proof" as to how things are incorrect, a spreadsheet would be nice... This covers Host ID's and the Angle Ranges... Until that happens everyone is just venting Frustration... Not to mention will not Fix the Problem! If this whole thing was not so SAD, it could be funny for some. I see that you ignored my request to go visit Seti Beta... Now it bites You! It tells everyone inspite of "MY" warnings that you were happy without taking "proper time" to investigate... That becomes Your Fault! So while I "personally feel that credits are less than they should be" I have worked to provide "proof." You are once again welcome to email me al.setiboinc (at) gmail.com, I suspect that you will ignore it again! Just like that last half dozen times! I will be happy to email a link to where you can look a spreadsheet that can help to fix some of the problems, if you are not doing the same then you are missing something... So along with the last note that Crunch3r is talking with the Seti Powers and we see these type things... I really have to wonder, are you talking "me" for the the general "community?" Currently no one has provided "proof!" Pappa Consider me foolish.. Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project. |
Logan 5@SETI.USA Send message Joined: 7 May 01 Posts: 54 Credit: 1,275,043 RAC: 0 |
The "requests", as well as the answers that have been posted here effect us all and all should have a say in it.Maybe in the future they will (and maybe you all (strike & non-strike) should have a say in the future before UCB makes anything final), but now is not the time for that. This is a thread to send the list of 'issues' that the 'strikers' have come up with to the Project Management Team for them to consider (been done) and to open a dialog based on those requests (also been done) with them. Nothing more or less than that. Unless I'm missing something here, there's no reason to be afraid that if one doesn't immediately speak up for OR against this that somehow Berkeley will make some kind of summary judgement. Things are a long way off from that as Eric has said that some of the issues will not begin to be considered/addressed until he get's back to UCB. So, why not wait and see what the final 'official' position is from UCB before anyone (strike or non strike) jumps to conclusions based on facts not in evidence. ed. spelling & clarity of thought |
MattDavis Send message Joined: 11 Nov 99 Posts: 919 Credit: 934,161 RAC: 0 |
A strike isn't a 100% give-in to demands. It's a compromise. And I've seen all the strike supporters yell at us instead of, say, apologizing for personally attacking Eric. ----- |
Toby Send message Joined: 26 Oct 00 Posts: 1005 Credit: 6,366,949 RAC: 0 |
My personal comparisons to the Rosetta credit on identical rigs shows Seti credit a bit low to it. What more could be asked for is roughly the same credit between BOINC projects? I agree that credits should be roughly equal across BOINC projects however Rosetta probably isn't the best one to base this on since they don't do validation and you get whatever you claim. If your benchmark happens to deviate from its usual values it will make all projects look off compared to Rosetta. As for this sub-debate going on... it is doing more harm to the topic of the thread than just leaving it alone. Please just drop it, everyone. A member of The Knights Who Say NI! For rankings, history graphs and more, check out: My BOINC stats site |
Brian Silvers Send message Joined: 11 Jun 99 Posts: 1681 Credit: 492,052 RAC: 0 |
Ned... Yes, I know. That's why I mentioned the bit about taxes and the supposed "fair share"... Brian |
Brian Silvers Send message Joined: 11 Jun 99 Posts: 1681 Credit: 492,052 RAC: 0 |
I think that you'll find I'm neither for or against, but am trying to see if I can coax a little more of an explanation on a specific point. The belief is that additional "work" is being done other than a floating point op. That is likely true, but I'm not sure if it is very much additional work. There is a statement that the project team is looking at a boost of perhaps 5% more. Also there appears to be a quest to equalize the credit between the boinc projects. So, there appears to be some efforts being made... If the individuals who support "the strike" can state their belief and provide unbiased data to support it, then perhaps more could/would be done? If it really isn't "fair", then wouldn't it benefit everyone if those who hold that belief can express it in a more specific manner? |
daemon6 Send message Joined: 17 Dec 05 Posts: 7 Credit: 4,428,939 RAC: 0 |
This is why many have gone on strike. Mods (no name given)...like to turn it around and make it 'look' like a "two way street"...but in fact they cannot hack it. They are mods. They should NOT act inappropriately. Plan and simple. I'm not going into detail. If anyone has any sense they'll see what the hell is going on. I'm all for the strike....but it seems as if it falls on deaf ears. No offense....but Eric if you ever decide to quit...I will not be saddened. You say the seti project will fall in your absence. So be it. I know it's coming. My machines are crunching for rosetta and einstein now. To hell w/ seti...a project I once had much love for. I care not crunch for the benefit of people that have their heads stuck up their rear end. No msgs from me anymore. *Insert your flame here* -dae6 |
Francesco Forti Send message Joined: 24 May 00 Posts: 334 Credit: 204,421,005 RAC: 15 |
Thankyou Daniel for this post. I didn't know the fact 2.) (countless hours of wasted CPU cycles) but now I understand why some hosts of mine are so not productive. So the Crunch3r fact is only the top of an icerberg. I didn't know the fact of the email to Eric. I don't read all the forum every day. I totally agree with what you have written but not point 4.) Beeing myself a moderator in a lot of ML/fora I know that this function is a techical one and not "democratic". You don't elect bus drivers, in USA, I think. E partial sweep is in any case a good policy and administrators should see by themself who change, if any. I hope that SETI will be again a project in wich believe and I must tell that this crisis is removing too much people. Bye Francesco (CH) |
Francesco Forti Send message Joined: 24 May 00 Posts: 334 Credit: 204,421,005 RAC: 15 |
Hi, Eric. I can't discuss now on the tecnical part of your post. I can only give you a suggestion about "zero tolerance" and "delete post" activity (a tipical american way to solve problems that we european don't like :-) ) I'm a forum moderator (in politic forum, that as you can immagine are very ... inflammable ) and (but?) I don't like censorship so I suggest you to create a forum named "basket of the trash" and to move there every post that does not follow the forum's rules. So the original thread is clear but the moderator action is transparent. In order to do so you need a "move thread" and a "cut and move tree" funcion. Bye, Francesco (CH) |
Daniel Schaalma Send message Joined: 28 May 99 Posts: 297 Credit: 16,953,703 RAC: 0 |
Eric, Thank you VERY much for taking time from your busy schedule to listen to, and address the grievances brought up. Let me start by saying that I am VERY SORRY for any verbal abuse you have taken because of these issues. I personally apologise if anything I have posted was the cause of any personal attacks on you. I will inform Crunch3r that you have opened up your spam filters for his email address, so that (I HOPE) there can be some private dialog between you and Crunch3r, so that we can mend the fences that have brought us to this crossroads. I also thank you for taking the time to address the other points of our concerns. I would also like to personally thank you, Eric, for your hard work and dedication to this project. It is my only hope that this Demonstration will help to bring all of us back together once again, so that Seti can PROSPER, and not self-destruct. Someone once said "All that is required for evil to triumph is for good men to do NOTHING". My love for this project is such that I could NOT just sit back and do NOTHING to try to improve things. I would ask that EVERYONE stop the personal attacks on ERIC, as well as EACH OTHER. There will ALWAYS be strong opinions on BOTH sides of EVERY issue. I appeal to EACH AND EVERY MEMBER of this project to PLEASE respect the opinions of others from THIS POINT FORWARD, and please TRY to hold our tempers. I LOVE this project, and I am just trying the best I can to help make this project FUN once again for EVERYONE. It is time to stop cursing each other. It is time to stop flaming each other, and to stop the slinging of accusations. From this point forward, please try to work out your differences in a CIVILIZED mannor. We each have our own reasons why we crunch for Seti. No matter WHAT our personal motivation, the bottom line is that we ALL contribute to the projects goals, in whatever capacity we can. It is PAST DUE that we start mending the fences that have so divided us, and thus, I shall begin. In the past, I have said things in other threads that I regret saying. It was in the heat of the moment. I thus APOLOGIZE to anyone I have offended by any of my remarks. I am deeply saddened that things have driven us so far apart. Each human being is unique. With unique looks, with unique thoughts, unique customs, unique emotions and feelings. Yet we are ALL HUMAN BEINGS. Though we hail from different cities, states or provinces, and different nations, and speak different languages, it is high time that we start respecting one another, regardless of our beliefs or origins, and respect each other as citizens of EARTH. I firmly believe that we are not alone in this vast universe. If we, the citizens of Planet Earth, cannot work together, how will we react once we actually DISCOVER ETI??? Please, everyone. Take a few moments to reflect upon this, and let us begin working together for once. Let us mend our broken fences and show the WORLD that we can begin working WITH one another, not AGAINST one another. It starts HERE. It starts NOW. Thank you for your time. Regards, Daniel. |
Berserker Send message Joined: 2 Jun 99 Posts: 105 Credit: 5,440,087 RAC: 0 |
I'll address the moderation issue, because that's the one I have most personal experience with. I am a moderator on a large UK-based forum, and we do have a zero tolerance policy on personal attacks against members. We also have zero tolerance against the four-letter adjectives. In the vast majority of cases, it works very well, but I should point out that moderating a large forum with such policies is hard work, and the moderators should be prepared for such. It's also often a thankless task. We've had numerous people throwing email insults at us because they didn't like it when we took issue with their attitudes. Throwing around expletives and personal insults can only ever be negative, and therefore counter-productive. It lowers the tone of the boards and results in people getting fed up with the community and leaving. I'd also consider it a poor reflection on those in charge of the boards to allow such activity to continue unchecked. Of course, the moderators themselves must lead by example, and at least in our case, any moderator throwing around insults and expletives would be ejected without hesitation. In any event, getting the balance right between what is and is not acceptable is key to the longevity of any forum (and community) such as this. Over-moderation can be just as bad as under-moderation. Of course, no forum is ever going to be perfect. Even with out zero tolerance policies, we've had the odd flare-up, just like has happened here. However, they are thankfully very rare. Hope this perspective helps contribute to the debate. While I'm planning to leave SETI@home for a while, I'd certainly like to come back when things have settled down, and I'd rather come back to find a friendly community than one where people are constantly sniping at each other. Stats site - http://www.teamocuk.co.uk - still alive and (just about) kicking. |
champ Send message Joined: 12 Mar 03 Posts: 3642 Credit: 1,489,147 RAC: 0 |
Well done Daniel. You will get a (+) from me. Hope now we can go back to normal crunching. |
jimmyhua Send message Joined: 16 Apr 05 Posts: 97 Credit: 369,588 RAC: 0 |
2.) The application errors in the code are causing countless hours of wasted CPU cycles. The application crashes out or gets -9 overflow errors MANY hours into workunit processing. This results in no credit being granted at ALL for such workunits. Thus, we request an application that does not waste our CPU cycles by going into a seemingly endless loop. Yes! We need this fixed! 3.) There have been many discussions on what is "Fair Credit" for the work we perform. Since credit IS important to a large number of participants, we request that this situation be investigated sooner, rather than later. Perhaps looking into a system that takes into consideration the TOTAL amount of work done, and not just the FPOPS. I disagree. Using FPOPS count to grant credit is as fair as it can get. |
Pappa Send message Joined: 9 Jan 00 Posts: 2562 Credit: 12,301,681 RAC: 0 |
It is over Are there any site providing optimized clients? in a message from Crunch3r he has deleted the source code and asked that everyone remove it from their computers. There is no need for a Strike, there were no winners. There is a need to get the credit system fixed... So it time to go back to Work, Crunch Or Stop it is Your Choice please just do it quietly... Pappa Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project. |
J D K Send message Joined: 26 May 04 Posts: 1295 Credit: 311,371 RAC: 0 |
Sorry for my late reply. The mountain has been in lightning shutdown, and we're about to get hit again. I just love it when the FACTS come out, well said Eric. I vote for a zero tolerance policy, as that will stop old hot headed me lololol And the beat goes on Sonny and Cher BOINC Wiki |
Pappa Send message Joined: 9 Jan 00 Posts: 2562 Credit: 12,301,681 RAC: 0 |
It is over Are there any site providing optimized clients? in a message from Crunch3r he has deleted the source code and asked that everyone remove it from their computers. There is no need for a Strike, there were no winners. There is a need to get the credit system fixed... So it time to go back to Work, Crunch Or Stop it is Your Choice please just do it quietly... Pappa Please consider a Donation to the Seti Project. |
n7rfa Send message Joined: 13 Apr 04 Posts: 370 Credit: 9,058,599 RAC: 0 |
It is over You already said that here. |
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