BOINC does not and never has worked


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Profile brownbar
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Message 15929 - Posted: 20 Aug 2004, 23:31:13 UTC

I keep seeing messages that the project is up and running but it never works. Schedulers never respond. Is there anyone out there who can claim that it appears to work even sometimes?

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Message 15936 - Posted: 20 Aug 2004, 23:54:56 UTC

Yep...
It works...
Sometimes...
:^))

Profile Thierry Van Driessche
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Message 15940 - Posted: 21 Aug 2004, 0:07:23 UTC

I got this some minutes ago:
SETI@home - 2004-08-21 01:52:46 - Started download of 13ja04aa.11634.28624.653386.84
SETI@home - 2004-08-21 01:53:05 - Finished download of 13ja04aa.11634.28624.653386.84

UTC +2h.

Heffed
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Message 15957 - Posted: 21 Aug 2004, 1:05:50 UTC - in response to Message 15929.

> Is there anyone out there who can claim that it
> appears to work even sometimes?

I can. I ran beta for six months. It does work, and has worked. It apparently just doesn't like a larger group of users than was running beta. (around 20k)

<a> [/url]

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Message 15992 - Posted: 21 Aug 2004, 3:50:52 UTC - in response to Message 15929.
Last modified: 21 Aug 2004, 17:21:02 UTC

> I keep seeing messages that the project is up and running but it never works.
> Schedulers never respond. Is there anyone out there who can claim that it
> appears to work even sometimes?
>
I guess the around 4000 total credits and around 300 or so average credits are indicative of a problem?
The only problem I see with your account is that you have one computer listed twice, the 1200, and have failed to merge the 2.
You seem to be getting credits when the system works and it WILL work again, and you are obviously getting and returning units to get those credits!
So WHAT is the major problem you see? That the project has growing pains....WINDOWS has growing pains! It has been out since the 1980's and STILL has updates almost weekly! Boinc has been running for around a year TOTAL and yes does have soem growing pains. Maybe Berkeley was a little to hasty telling people it went live, maybe they could have done an orderly switch over, maybe they can fly, maybe they have a few hundred million dollars sitting in a box waiting to be spent, maybe it will take a while to get things running the way they envisioned. The important thing to know is that they WILL get it right!
Oh and I ran the Beta for awhile too and it worked just fine.

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Message 16449 - Posted: 22 Aug 2004, 21:08:39 UTC - in response to Message 15992.

> > I keep seeing messages that the project is up and running but it never
> works.
> > Schedulers never respond. Is there anyone out there who can claim that
> it
> > appears to work even sometimes?
> >
> I guess the around 4000 total credits and around 300 or so average credits are
> indicative of a problem?
> The only problem I see with your account is that you have one computer listed
> twice, the 1200, and have failed to merge the 2.
> You seem to be getting credits when the system works and it WILL work again,
> and you are obviously getting and returning units to get those credits!
> So WHAT is the major problem you see? That the project has growing
> pains....WINDOWS has growing pains! It has been out since the 1980's and STILL
> has updates almost weekly! Boinc has been running for around a year TOTAL and
> yes does have soem growing pains. Maybe Berkeley was a little to hasty telling
> people it went live, maybe they could have done an orderly switch over, maybe
> they can fly, maybe they have a few hundred million dollars sitting in a box
> waiting to be spent, maybe it will take a while to get things running the way
> they envisioned. The important thing to know is that they WILL get it right!
> Oh and I ran the Beta for awhile too and it worked just fine.
>
>
>

The Beta ran for quite a while with debug code in the Windows version. Why? Because it did not work just fine. Fortunately they found and corrected the problems in the client. There were also quite a few problems on the server side, but nothing like what we're seeing here. The Beta message board was just as full of posts full of frustration with the state of the project.

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Message 16453 - Posted: 22 Aug 2004, 21:24:08 UTC - in response to Message 16449.

> The Beta ran for quite a while with debug code in the Windows version. Why?
> Because it did not work just fine. Fortunately they found and corrected the
> problems in the client. There were also quite a few problems on the server
> side, but nothing like what we're seeing here. The Beta message board was
> just as full of posts full of frustration with the state of the project.

Yes, the beta boards had frustration posts, but that is to be expected with beta projects. Many people don't understand the concept of beta testing. Yes, there will be problems. That's what beta is all about.

All I was saying was that the beta project ran 95% better than the public project. So the project can and has worked. Just with a more limited number of users...

Also, I don't believe there was a single beta tester that felt the project was ready for public consumption just yet. ;-)

<a> [/url]

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Message 16482 - Posted: 23 Aug 2004, 0:26:49 UTC - in response to Message 16453.


> Also, I don't believe there was a single beta tester that felt the project was
> ready for public consumption just yet. ;-)
>
> <a> [/url]
>

I second that motion. I don't think that there were many who felt it was really ready for Beta either. :-(


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Message 17595 - Posted: 25 Aug 2004, 23:46:24 UTC - in response to Message 15929.
Last modified: 26 Aug 2004, 4:04:58 UTC

> I keep seeing messages that the project is up and running but it never works.
> Schedulers never respond. Is there anyone out there who can claim that it
> appears to work even sometimes?
>

What a load of rubbish. I have 140000 CS in my "credit" (across projects, not counting the 10000 on Beta), one of the other team members has 193000, several over 40000.

Never worked? Seem to have been granted some credit somewhere!

If the BOINC client has survived the ups and downs server-side then you have to say the BOINC client operates quite well. Because the operating environment for the client over the past 4 weeks or so has been "harsh" in the extreme.

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Message 17606 - Posted: 26 Aug 2004, 0:21:03 UTC

Everything with BOINC seems to work fine here. I still have backlogged credits and such and didn't have WU's for 3 days but, no biggies. I don't consider them to be a BOINC fsilure. Just technical issues that need to be solved.

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Message 18369 - Posted: 27 Aug 2004, 19:53:37 UTC - in response to Message 16453.

>
> Yes, the beta boards had frustration posts, but that is to be expected with
> beta projects. Many people don't understand the concept of beta testing. Yes,
> there will be problems. That's what beta is all about.
>
> All I was saying was that the beta project ran 95% better than the public
> project. So the project can and has worked. Just with a more
> limited number of users...
>
> Also, I don't believe there was a single beta tester that felt the project was
> ready for public consumption just yet. ;-)
>
I agree. The project is *not* ready for the public. At least not 3.x SetiBoinc. Now, if they could get the damn servers and schedulers to stay up, that would be a MAJOR improvement. Oh, and have a few work units for those of us who are actually participating!

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Message 18881 - Posted: 28 Aug 2004, 20:04:28 UTC

Thanks for hammering out all the problems with BOINC! Your frustration is my joy. I will stick with SaH Classic until all of these problems have been worked out. Oh and to everyone getting pissy on this thread, this is NEW software and NEW software always has bugs. If that annoys you don't be an early adopter. Geez!

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Message 18903 - Posted: 28 Aug 2004, 20:54:47 UTC

I know there have been, and still are problems, but I'm sure the team will figure it all out eventually. What they are trying to do is quite complicated so lets be patient & give them a bit of support eh? Cheers!

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Message 18944 - Posted: 28 Aug 2004, 22:40:53 UTC - in response to Message 18881.

> Thanks for hammering out all the problems with BOINC! Your frustration is my
> joy. I will stick with SaH Classic until all of these problems have been
> worked out. Oh and to everyone getting pissy on this thread, this is NEW
> software and NEW software always has bugs. If that annoys you don't be an
> early adopter. Geez!
>
>

When I joined BOINC there was no mention that the software was buggy or that it was in Beta mode or anything else. Just an announcment that there was a new version available. As most people that changed over, we assumed that the software had been properly tested, the hardware was up and running, adequate for the expected number of users etc.

The write up and links are still there.
"1. On 14 May 2004 we made a 'snapshot' of SETI@home Classic user information (accounts, teams, profiles) and used it to initialize the new SETI@home database. "
"2. On June 22 2004 we made SETI@home/BOINC available for general use. There will be a 'transition period' during which you can run either SETI@home Classic or SETI@home/BOINC. During this transition period, SETI@home Classic accounts and team changes can be made, but they will not be carried over."
"3. Once SETI@home/BOINC is running smoothly and versions are available for most platforms, we will turn off the data server for SETI@home Classic. At this point you will need to switch to SETI@home/BOINC."

Anyone reading this would naturally assume that the transition period will be fairly short and everyone would have to change to BOINC quite soon (I Did). As it turns out the project seems to have been down about half the time with different problems.
It would be nice to put a PERMANENT note on the BOINC home page that due to the ongoing problems with BOINC it would advise anyone thinking of changing to BOINC that it would be better to stay with Seti@home until BOINC has been working properly for a couple of weeks or more.
DON'T blame anyone for complaining after they were advised to change over and then find the system is virtually useless. It's not the users fault it's not ready for general use.

Alan

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Message 19576 - Posted: 30 Aug 2004, 0:59:52 UTC
Last modified: 30 Aug 2004, 1:03:28 UTC

>"3. Once SETI@home/BOINC is running smoothly and versions are available for
>most platforms, we will turn off the data server for SETI@home Classic. At
>this point you will need to switch to SETI@home/BOINC."

As they said....once its running smoothly they will turn off classic. Thus one can infer that it is not running as smoothly as they would like. It's not like they forced everyone over. So I think it is fair to yell at anyone that is complaining when they can just put a hold on BOINC and keep running classic.

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Message 19705 - Posted: 30 Aug 2004, 2:47:38 UTC - in response to Message 18944.
Last modified: 30 Aug 2004, 2:52:23 UTC

> DON'T blame anyone for complaining after they were advised to change over and
> then find the system is virtually useless. It's not the users fault it's not
> ready for general use.
>
> Alan
>

Alan is 100% on the money. I've written this before [another post], but it is worth repeating: the biggest mistake they make is making promsies they can't keep. Better to say you uploaded the new client AFTER you uploaded. Just an example. They promised it 4 or 5 times this week.

I've been quietly crunching WU for a long time now. I wasn't able to using 3.2 on two different PCs (for the longest time I thought it was the front-page issues) and now I still have the issues with 4.05. They told us it was ready for prime-time and instead of backing off and withdrawing it for a while or a larger beta they have tarnished the name of the project.

I'm glad a couple of the power WU crunchers can crunch, but the project's fame and profile and majority of work come from the sheer number of users, many of whom have likely dropped off. It is hard to shake a bad rep.

JHMO

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Message 19774 - Posted: 30 Aug 2004, 3:53:46 UTC

Just to wade into the fray, I have to say that I was one of the people that S@H Classic wasn't an option for. It kept giving me fatal errors on every machine. I switched, became frustrated, and switched to UD's grid.org prjoect after trying to go back to S@H Classic and still getting fatal errors.

BOINC didn't (and apparently still doesn't) work, nor would S@H Classic on any of my machines.

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Message 20134 - Posted: 31 Aug 2004, 1:40:21 UTC

I have deleted boinc from all execpt one machine. That one will probably be delted by the weekend. My experience is it doesn't work. The staff apparently doesn't care. Feedback to users on what is happening is poor to non-existent. A little bit of caring would have gone a long way. Maybe I'll check back in a year or two, for now it is not worth the frustration.

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Message 20208 - Posted: 31 Aug 2004, 3:15:36 UTC - in response to Message 20134.

> I have deleted boinc from all execpt one machine. That one will probably be
> delted by the weekend. My experience is it doesn't work. The staff apparently
> doesn't care. Feedback to users on what is happening is poor to non-existent.
> A little bit of caring would have gone a long way. Maybe I'll check back in
> a year or two, for now it is not worth the frustration.
>
ALRIGHT! More units for the rest of us. Seriously though, come back in a while and you will be pleasantly suprised! The system will be up and running and no-one will be still talking about these "glitches".

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Message 20369 - Posted: 31 Aug 2004, 13:21:25 UTC - in response to Message 20134.

> I have deleted boinc from all execpt one machine. That one will probably be
> delted by the weekend. My experience is it doesn't work. The staff apparently
> doesn't care. Feedback to users on what is happening is poor to non-existent.
> A little bit of caring would have gone a long way. Maybe I'll check back in
> a year or two, for now it is not worth the frustration.

What about the other projects? Climateprediction works, and predictor are upgrading soon. The purpose of BOINC is to allow you to participate in multiple projects, so if Seti doesn't have work, crunch something else.

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