Do we have a Boinc virus?

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Profile Toby
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Message 244242 - Posted: 8 Feb 2006, 0:49:02 UTC - in response to Message 243873.  

Nobody have to give an account about the hosts, RAC, etc!
Why not?! What is wrong with it? Do you cheat? Are you stealing computing time of your employer, your friends, your customers?

Wow. And you call this "not a witch hunt"? Someone says "I don't have to show my computers to you!" and you reply with a clear implication that they are guilty of cheating. Salem, here we come! I'm not sure if you intended to say that, but that is what it looks like to me.

And for what it's worth, I agree with him. If a user has a high RAC, it means they are doing valid science for the project. How they get all their computing power is quite frankly none of your business. You may suspect people and investigate to your heart's content but for you to demand that they justify themselves to you is kind of absurd since you are just another volunteer and have no power over them. If you suspect someone, feel free to bring them to the attention of a project admin who has the power to do something about it but demanding that people justify themselves on the message boards will only raise your blood pressure and contribute to excessively long threads.

Quite frankly, this whole discussion kind of makes we want to go and hide my hosts now - just because I can. Who are YOU to demand that everyone un-hide their hosts? I don't care if it reveals personal information or not. It is an option that every user has and has the right to use. If you think it shouldn't be an option, write to the developer mailing list instead of spouting off here.

If only threads could be locked... *sigh*
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Message 244244 - Posted: 8 Feb 2006, 0:50:39 UTC - in response to Message 244242.  

Nobody have to give an account about the hosts, RAC, etc!
Why not?! What is wrong with it? Do you cheat? Are you stealing computing time of your employer, your friends, your customers?

Wow. And you call this "not a witch hunt"? Someone says "I don't have to show my computers to you!" and you reply with a clear implication that they are guilty of cheating. Salem, here we come! I'm not sure if you intended to say that, but that is what it looks like to me.

And for what it's worth, I agree with him. If a user has a high RAC, it means they are doing valid science for the project. How they get all their computing power is quite frankly none of your business. You may suspect people and investigate to your heart's content but for you to demand that they justify themselves to you is kind of absurd since you are just another volunteer and have no power over them. If you suspect someone, feel free to bring them to the attention of a project admin who has the power to do something about it but demanding that people justify themselves on the message boards will only raise your blood pressure and contribute to excessively long threads.

Quite frankly, this whole discussion kind of makes we want to go and hide my hosts now - just because I can. Who are YOU to demand that everyone un-hide their hosts? I don't care if it reveals personal information or not. It is an option that every user has and has the right to use. If you think it shouldn't be an option, write to the developer mailing list instead of spouting off here.

If only threads could be locked... *sigh*


Agreed. That way, even *you* couldn't post in that locked thread.

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Profile Mark Artuso

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Message 244283 - Posted: 8 Feb 2006, 1:37:07 UTC - in response to Message 244242.  
Last modified: 8 Feb 2006, 1:39:08 UTC

And for what it's worth, I agree with him. If a user has a high RAC, it means they are doing valid science for the project. How they get all their computing power is quite frankly none of your business.


I don't entirely agree with that. While not anywhere near the magnitude of the crime, a comparison might be Nazi Germany conducting "experiments" on unwilling victims... Much was learned about human tolerances, etc., but no one, in good conscience, could condone the ethics involved. Was it ok to skirt morals for "the science" then? No.
If a project's premise is to "do anything" for the results, regardless of ethics, I believe most people of principal are out.

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Message 244287 - Posted: 8 Feb 2006, 1:42:45 UTC - in response to Message 244283.  
Last modified: 8 Feb 2006, 1:43:20 UTC

a comparison might be Nazi Germany

FINALLY!
Godwin's law has been invoked for real. This thread is Dead folks. Seriously.
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Profile Mark Artuso

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Message 244291 - Posted: 8 Feb 2006, 1:52:30 UTC - in response to Message 244287.  

a comparison might be Nazi Germany

FINALLY!
Godwin's law has been invoked for real. This thread is Dead folks. Seriously.



Sorry there, Tobe. Your "Godwin's Law" would apply if I called you a "Nazi" for wanting to close a discussion on ethics, not a cited example about a lack of a moral base.

If someone brings up any comparison to Nazi Germany, and you cannot refute it, you are certainly free to post a link to what you believe is gospel that a thread "is dead". If you are that close minded, simply.stop.reading.

You believe this thread to be dead, yet you keep posting.
I believe it is a subject that should be open to discussion.
WHO.IS.FORCING.YOU.TO.CONTINUE.READING?

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Message 244294 - Posted: 8 Feb 2006, 2:03:42 UTC - in response to Message 244287.  

a comparison might be Nazi Germany

FINALLY!
Godwin's law has been invoked for real. This thread is Dead folks. Seriously.


Not fair i already invoked it!

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Profile Mark Artuso

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Message 244297 - Posted: 8 Feb 2006, 2:06:08 UTC - in response to Message 244294.  
Last modified: 8 Feb 2006, 2:07:50 UTC

a comparison might be Nazi Germany

FINALLY!
Godwin's law has been invoked for real. This thread is Dead folks. Seriously.


Not fair i already invoked it!


LOL... Dang, missed it by that much!

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Message 244298 - Posted: 8 Feb 2006, 2:08:06 UTC - in response to Message 244297.  

a comparison might be Nazi Germany

FINALLY!
Godwin's law has been invoked for real. This thread is Dead folks. Seriously.


Not fair i already invoked it!


LOL... Dang, missed it by that much!



No worry about him, he's just trying to get the last say....

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Message 244319 - Posted: 8 Feb 2006, 2:24:51 UTC - in response to Message 244298.  

a comparison might be Nazi Germany

FINALLY!
Godwin's law has been invoked for real. This thread is Dead folks. Seriously.


Not fair i already invoked it!


LOL... Dang, missed it by that much!



No worry about him, he's just trying to get the last say....


I'm not sure why people shy away from a discussion of ethics in a shared computing project, but hey, that's just me... Like, would it be unethical for me to ask a member of a NAVY team to instead put his efforts towards a team attempting to combine all America's stats at SETI.USA? heh.


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Message 244352 - Posted: 8 Feb 2006, 3:07:20 UTC - in response to Message 244294.  
Last modified: 8 Feb 2006, 3:14:54 UTC

a comparison might be Nazi Germany

FINALLY!
Godwin's law has been invoked for real. This thread is Dead folks. Seriously.


Not fair i already invoked it!


you sure did...

But I'll didn't bite it wasn't very tasteful for me to do ;-)
[edit]added for me [/edit]
have fun..
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Message 244361 - Posted: 8 Feb 2006, 3:20:54 UTC - in response to Message 244319.  

I'm not sure why people shy away from a discussion of ethics in a shared computing project, but hey, that's just me... Like, would it be unethical for me to ask a member of a NAVY team to instead put his efforts towards a team attempting to combine all America's stats at SETI.USA? heh.

As a Brit I know that the US Navy is older than the USA so maybe, by traditional standards, you should join them. ;-)
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Message 244398 - Posted: 8 Feb 2006, 4:39:35 UTC - in response to Message 244294.  

Not fair i already invoked it!

Yes however I think this clause from wikipedia applies:
It is considered poor form to arbitrarily raise such a comparison with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil that any such deliberate invocation of Godwin's Law will be unsuccessful.


This time I feel it was a true invocation.

:)
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Message 244404 - Posted: 8 Feb 2006, 4:56:04 UTC - in response to Message 244398.  

Not fair i already invoked it!

Yes however I think this clause from wikipedia applies:
It is considered poor form to arbitrarily raise such a comparison with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil that any such deliberate invocation of Godwin's Law will be unsuccessful.


This time I feel it was a true invocation.

:)


:PPPPPPPP

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Message 244423 - Posted: 8 Feb 2006, 5:48:59 UTC

uuhhhh this is one of those onion things right........
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Message 244429 - Posted: 8 Feb 2006, 5:56:05 UTC

It gets cold this time of the year in Salem.
People like it warm outdoors with a big fire.
So there are few witches around.
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Message 244452 - Posted: 8 Feb 2006, 6:28:51 UTC - in response to Message 244423.  

uuhhhh this is one of those onion things right........

no this is one of those shut up and leave it alone things ;)

cakes... everybody likes cake...
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Message 244464 - Posted: 8 Feb 2006, 6:58:22 UTC

I know that this is a old thread but the user Carsten Giese suddenly doesn't exist, so i think that the whole idea of what this thread was all about were indeed true after all.

Usually i studies top 100 and noticed today that he was gone..

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Message 244508 - Posted: 8 Feb 2006, 8:46:48 UTC - in response to Message 244464.  

I know that this is a old thread but the user Carsten Giese suddenly doesn't exist, so i think that the whole idea of what this thread was all about were indeed true after all.

Usually i studies top 100 and noticed today that he was gone..


The thread isn't that old ... but it certainly isn't short either ... you may have missed the recent posting where it was stated that the person in question agreed to the closing of his account and team. I don't think any conclusions one way or the other about his involvement in the exploit can be drawn from this alone.


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Message 244516 - Posted: 8 Feb 2006, 9:27:32 UTC - in response to Message 244319.  



I'm not sure why people shy away from a discussion of ethics in a shared computing project, but hey, that's just me... Like, would it be unethical for me to ask a member of a NAVY team to instead put his efforts towards a team attempting to combine all America's stats at SETI.USA? heh.


If it were simply a discussion of the ethics that would be fine.

But this thread has moved on to the forensics of identifying non-ethical crunchers, demands that privacy and anonymity (such as they are) go to 'identify the criminals' then on to the punishments.

As volunteers, this just isn't in out remit.

Frankly if we feel srongly enough that BOINC leads to unethical behaviour then the appropriate action is to leave BOINC.

The very idea of volunteers trawling through other volunteers machine lists and RACs looking for people to report is akin to the worst of Stalinism (there, I didn'r need to invoke the Nazis).

Most countries have adequate laws that prohibit the use of computer resources without permission. But that is an issue between the owner of those resources and the unauthorised user, not BOINC project management and volunteers.

Of course, if any individual wishes to waste their lives tracking down compromised machines, identifying the owners and letting them know their systems are compromised, then that is an individual right. Good luck, but as they say - Get a Life.

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Message 244541 - Posted: 8 Feb 2006, 11:38:35 UTC - in response to Message 241132.  
Last modified: 8 Feb 2006, 11:42:59 UTC


Test your AVP using http://www.eicar.com/anti_virus_test_file.htm test string. If that doesn't trigger a virus warning, your AVP is possibly compromisesd.
Update your AVP .dat files now.
Run a full system scan, now.
Make clean backups now.



Great link!

AVG anti virus even finds it when double archived! And won't even allow the the download of the test file if not zipped.

Also Stinger should be used to make sure that your anti virus program has not been compromised.
:)
98SE XP2500+ @ 2.1 GHz Boinc v5.8.8

And God said"Let there be light."But then the program crashed because he was trying to access the 'light' property of a NULL universe pointer.
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