I believe this was touched upon in one of the replies I read, however it did not really answer the question asked. So, I present it here.

The Transfers Tab lists the WU's that are to be uploaded. No problem there, they upload and are removed form the page.

However, on the Work Tab, their are WU's that are 100% with a status of Ready to report, (I currently have ten on that page).

What happens? Do the Ready to Report at some time move to the Transfer page, are they somehow uploaded form the Work page? What really goes on with the completed data from the time it is finished to when it is uploaded?


<a> [/url]

This should cover all of your questions:

http://homepage.mac.com/pauldbuck/site-boinc/oman-app/app-tab-gen.html

> This should cover all of your questions:


Thank you for the reply and the link.

That was a very nice read and it did answer a lot of basic questions, however, it did not answer the question I had.

Uploading work units is a 2 step proces. First, the actual data (an XML file containing all the spikes/tripplets/gaussions/etc) is uploaded to the seti@home servers. This activity shows up on the "Transfers" tab. This does NOT however, update your personal stats. This happens in the seconds step when your client contacts the scheduler and says "yo! I completed the following work units (claiming x credit) and now I need some more".

Now... if you look at the project's news section on the front page, you will see "The servers are back up as far as receiving results but not as far has distributing new workunits." This means that the server recieving the XML files is up and running but the scheduler is down. Once the scheduler returns to normal operations the "Ready to report" work units will be 'reported' to it and go disappear from your client alltogether. (and hopefully be replaced with new ones)



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Unfortunately, does this mean that if you have uploaded 20 units and still have the 20 'ready to report' in your work tab, and then the unit report deadline passes, that the work will have been in vain and the units are resent to someone else?

Chunderbunny

@Toby

I understand that the server is accepting uploads at the moment and that credit will be issued in due time, that downloads will resume when the current WU's are sorted out etc etc as posted on the Homepage.

Let me put my question another way;

When are the WU's moved to the Transfer page for upload, or are they transferred at all?

Maybe it does not matter in the long run and I am being too inquisitive.

Work units are never 'moved' to the transfers tab. The transfers tab shows transfers, not work units. It shows when BOINC is downloading a new seti@home client or supporting project files. As soon as a work unit finishes, an entry appears on the "transfers" tab for that work unit but it is still listed in the "work" tab with "Uploading" in the status column. If the data server is working properly then the transfer will only take a couple of seconds so you won't even see it unless you are quick with the mouse. When the upload completes, the status of the work unit on the "work" tab wil change to "Ready to report". At this point the client needs to contact the scheduler to report the work. After this happens, the work unit is completely removed from the "work" tab.

Hope that clears it up for you. I'm going to bed :)



-------------------------------------------
- A member of The Knights Who Say NI!
Possibly the best stats site in the universe:
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I think I have it now. The completed WU's only end up on the Transfer Tab if the upload failed from the Work Tab.

Bah, I just noticed in Messages that the server responded and one WU was uploaded, but it is still listed on the Work Tab, so I guess I am wrong.

Oh well, it was a nice feeling while it lasted.

> I think I have it now. The completed WU's only end up on the Transfer Tab if
> the upload failed from the Work Tab.
>
> Bah, I just noticed in Messages that the server responded and one WU was
> uploaded, but it is still listed on the Work Tab, so I guess I am wrong.
>
> Oh well, it was a nice feeling while it lasted.
>
>


I believe that you did understand it correctly. It just takes a while sometimes for it to disappear from the Work Tab and will show Ready to report even though the wu has already been uploaded. Usually this will happen pretty quickly but I have seen the completed wu that was uploaded read Ready to report for several hours. The wu will show in the Transfer Tab if it did not upload, as in, Upload failed situation that we have been seeing for the past few days. Berkeley is accepting uploads as of yesterday and that is why the wu's are starting to go away from the Transfer and the Work Tab.

> Unfortunately, does this mean that if you have uploaded 20 units and still
> have the 20 'ready to report' in your work tab, and then the unit report
> deadline passes, that the work will have been in vain and the units are resent
> to someone else?
>
> Chunderbunny
>
If you have the network enabled, reporting should happen automatically. Reporting happens at the first of: the next successful connection to the scheduler for that project to attempt to download work, 24 hours before the deadline, the end of the crunch if within 24 hours of the deadline, or a manual update. The WU is still OK to return after the deadline for credit if the WU has not been sent to new host, and that host has not already crunched, uploaded, and reported the result.

Kevin,

> That was a very nice read and it did answer a lot of basic questions, however,
> it did not answer the question I had.

It should once I post the changes. This is why you send Paul a note and say, "Hey Dummy!" ... :)

I am, hopefully, back to working on the site, a little if nothing else. At the moment I am making internal cosmetic changes and trying to get all the pages back in compliance so content may not look like it is growing much.

One of the other things Kevin is that there are times when I have a "blind spot" and miss something obvious. Which is why I need the help in finding holes. So, don't hesitate to pop me an e-mail. At times I don't look at the boards so I can miss posts here ...

Toby,

I swiped your words and changed them a little. I will be posting this changed page in a few minutes, let me know if I got it wrong or if I did not explain it well ...

@ Kevin
> I think I have it now. The completed WU's only end up on the Transfer Tab
> if the upload failed from the Work Tab.

Read my post (or Paul's website) again very carefully. The upload of a WU appears on the transfers tab IMMEDIATELY when the WU is done processing. Normally it uploads so fast you won't see it so the only time you will probably see it is if it fails. But if it DOES succeed, the WU will still be shown on the work tab until your client talks to the scheduling server as outlined by John above. I swear there is an echo in here...

@Paul
> Toby,
>
> I swiped your words and changed them a little. I will be posting this changed
> page in a few minutes, let me know if I got it wrong or if I did not explain
> it well ...

I demand royalties! Oh wait... I'm not the RIAA/MPAA. If it helps, by all means please use it. :) Although I did notice that you copied a mistake of mine: "...work units will be "reported" to it and go disappear from your..." Guess I didn't backspace enough :)

P.S. Good work, Paul. Now when people ask useless questions we can respond with a nice "RTFM" :)



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@Toby,

> I demand royalties! Oh wait... I'm not the RIAA/MPAA. If it helps, by all
> means please use it. :) Although I did notice that you copied a mistake of
> mine: "...work units will be "reported" to it and go disappear from
> your..." Guess I didn't backspace enough :)

I posted even though I was not sure it was "correct", I got a little work done (and that was pretty much it) and had to stop.

I am doing about an hour a day (sigh) before I have to quit ... but I will look at it again tomorrow ...

As I am adding counters (Now i have found out how to do that, even though the Apple ".Mac" support says it cannot be done, that is one of my main projects).

I have also done a hard look at the internal structure I did and I am replacing them with a "better" one (look at the source in the FAQs and Glossary, next up, Application Owner's Manual).

So, I am doing that and updating the pages to be 4.0 validated (31 of 253 don't, giving me a 12% error rate, way too high).

So, as you find mistakes, or gaps; let me know ...

(sic)

> P.S. Good work, Paul. Now when people ask useless questions we can respond
> with a nice "RTFM" :)



@Toby

Sorry for the "useless question" (not)! It has been my experience in education that their is never a useless question, only useless instructors. I take it that you do not agree with this attitude?

A simple If the WU is successfully uploaded, but a connection to the Server can not be established, the WU will remain on the Work Tab as Ready to report until a connection to the Server is successful would have sufficed.

Kevin,

> Sorry for the "useless question" ...

I did not say it, and I should have. You are correct that there is no uselss question and we failed you there.

I am going to start with your quote and take a stab at the work page and the transfers page again... lets fix this once and for all.

Paul,

Thank you very much for your reply. I really do want to know how the BIONC client works from the user end. That is, what we see going on when looking at our computer screens and wondering "What the heck is that all about?"

The original question may have seemed like idle curiosity to some, however I thought that these forums would be the place to satisfy that curiosity and learn better what is going on.

At least I am not bitching about Credit...;)




<a> [/url]

>
> Paul,
>
> Thank you very much for your reply. I really do want to know how the BIONC
> client works from the user end. That is, what we see going on when looking at
> our computer screens and wondering "What the heck is that all about?"
>
> The original question may have seemed like idle curiosity to some, however I
> thought that these forums would be the place to satisfy that curiosity and
> learn better what is going on.
>
> At least I am not bitching about Credit...;)
>
>
the question was asked in the correct place, and I don't think that any one had a problem with it. It was much more interesting than the constant bitching about no work.

Kevin,

> > Paul,
> > At least I am not bitching about Credit...;)

And what a relief it is! You did ask in the right place, and the docs I have are a good place to start picking it out. My problem is that I don't know if I have explained it well enough or not until I get a complaint. So, complain! I am adding instrumentation to all the pages and all you have to do is pop me an e-mail and I will get on it (subject to health).

John,

> the question was asked in the correct place, and I don't think that any one
> had a problem with it. It was much more interesting than the constant
> bitching about no work.

As always, my hero. :)

Right as always ...

John and JKeck are the two that give me the best explanations (subject to mild re-wording) and as I see things that I know are not in the docs, I steal it...

The Appllication Owner's Manual is a fairly high level explanation of the components and I have not been too interested in trying to document a moving target which is one of the reasons the content is not being aggressively updated. Once BOINC is settled down a bit (M2 complete probably) I will be looking to do much more content.

I am still trying to smart my way out to do predictor too (web Owner's Manual, without a complete rewrite or duplicate content).

Anyway, the Glossary is tied into the pages and you can mouse around there too ... if there is something missing or you can't find it, drop me a line ... post here or both ...

Now, what *I* need is someone that can give me a hand in sorting out the states. I looked at the spaghetti code and tracked down where the state messages are hidden and where they are updated, but of the 13 states I cannot come up with a good matrix that I can then turn into a correct discussion. If you know about them, I will post a message tomorrow with what I have found...

Anyway, ignore comments and perservere like you did. As in: "Ok, I read that and I still don't understand" is perfectly good.

>
> I believe this was touched upon in one of the replies I read, however it did
> not really answer the question asked. So, I present it here.
>
> The Transfers Tab lists the WU's that are to be uploaded. No problem there,
> they upload and are removed form the page.
>
> However, on the Work Tab, their are WU's that are 100% with a status of Ready
> to report, (I currently have ten on that page).
>
> What happens? Do the Ready to Report at some time move to the Transfer page,
> are they somehow uploaded form the Work page? What really goes on with the
> completed data from the time it is finished to when it is uploaded?
>
Returning the results is a two part process. First the result is uploaded by way of the transfer tab. You have to be quick, or have a slow connection or the servers have to be down to see anything. This step puts the result into the ready to report state. The result is reported to the server without going through the transfers tab at the first sucessful connection. These are initiated by: an automatic attempt to get more work from the project to refill the queue, the time being later than 24 hours before the deadline, the end of the crunch if the end of the crunch is later than 24 hours before the deadline, or a manual update.

@Kevin
Sorry... my 'useless questions' remark was actually not directed at you. I can come off more harsh than intended sometimes.

> A simple If the WU is successfully uploaded, but a connection to the Server
> can not be established, the WU will remain on the Work Tab as Ready to report
> until a connection to the Server is successful would have sufficed.

I thought I pretty much said that in my first & second posts. Maybe I included too much information. I am a newly graduated Computer Science major and simplifying things to make them understandable by the average person on the street is not one of my strenghts :)

Sorry for the miscommunication



-------------------------------------------
- A member of The Knights Who Say NI!
Possibly the best stats site in the universe:
http://boinc-kwsn.no-ip.info