Brainstorming facilities for DIAL-UP BOINCers - pls contribute!

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Message 228720 - Posted: 10 Jan 2006, 4:49:00 UTC

Thanks, everyone, for all your feedback and contributions.

John McL, thanks for stopping by, too. I hope this thread will continue to grow and become a useful reference for all.

The *PROBLEM(s)* reported by
Mr.Kjellen ( http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_reply.php?thread=26805#228377 ) and
ThePossum ( http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_reply.php?thread=26805#228655 )
.. seems like something significant which may require addressing.

John M / any other DEVs have any thoughts on the matter / problem raised?

Thanks,

?..Cx..?
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Message 228722 - Posted: 10 Jan 2006, 5:02:10 UTC - in response to Message 228720.  

Thanks, everyone, for all your feedback and contributions.

John McL, thanks for stopping by, too. I hope this thread will continue to grow and become a useful reference for all.

The *PROBLEM(s)* reported by
Mr.Kjellen ( http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_reply.php?thread=26805#228377 ) and
ThePossum ( http://setiathome.berkeley.edu/forum_reply.php?thread=26805#228655 )
.. seems like something significant which may require addressing.

John M / any other DEVs have any thoughts on the matter / problem raised?

Thanks,

?..Cx..?

Sorry, those two are a bit out of my range. I don't have dialup, and they are going to be impossible to re-create without it.


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Message 228724 - Posted: 10 Jan 2006, 5:03:01 UTC - in response to Message 228194.  

I had the exact messages you put up. I do not have dial up. All I got was I have a sorry router. I had a Bellsouth Westell modem. Can't change. US Robotics 8514 serving 5 computers. I thought US Robotics was pretty good. The computers can download workunits but not return them properly. I got so many workunits trying to return that my internet connection was pretty much cutoff. I couldn't connect to anything on internet. If my equipment is so bad then would some people send me their equipment so I can continue to contribute. I had to stop the network connections within my home network.

If what I say is so bad why was it mentioned as problem in dev mail list by those who hate me so.



Hi ksnash.

Please, let's take a moment and step back from discussing "hate".
I'm sure nobody "hates" you. It's probably just a difference of opinion.
(Besides, asking people to send you their equipment is er.. contraversial. That is, it may be misconstrued as confrontational / challenging.)

Let's start at the top.

Please describe your (main) computer - hardware and software setup. (US Robotics has earned a good reputation over the last 2 decades, so I would hope it's still true that they're good.)

Please also describe the way you work with BOINC
i.e. do you prefer to download just a few WUs at a time, or do you have a larger cache of WUs?
do you Disable Network Access when you're not around (AFK)?
or do you leave everything running, and an option for your modem to connect when required?

Please list specific PROBLEMS you've had; if you can copy/paste the "error message" lines from BOINC Manager's "Messages" tab, that would be helpful. (Please copy relevant lines before(/after) the "error" line, too.)

Making a SHORT-LIST will make things easier for Development personnel to read, saving a bit of time from "hunting" through text, and invites point-by-point addressing of / responses to each in turn, which is easier then for non-Dev users to associate while reading.

Let's see if we can't get your concerns addressed nicely, if they're presented nicely. =) (People usually respond in a similar manner as first addressed.)

Thanks, and keep 'em coming!

!..Cx..!
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Message 228727 - Posted: 10 Jan 2006, 5:08:47 UTC

There are a couple of possible problems with KSnash's setup.

1) The USR switch/router/firewall. The one I had didn't work very well.

2) One of the settings on same. That is about all that is left as possibilities (there was a rather lengthy discussion of the problem).


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Message 228762 - Posted: 10 Jan 2006, 8:39:07 UTC - in response to Message 228727.  

One solution to the dial-up question is to set your "preferences" for "network activity" to a time when you aren't going to be active on your computer - your sleep period, for example - and just before you go to bed (or whatever!) dial up the I-net. Assuming that your network connection stays active for a decent period, (45 minutes to an hour...) that should upload any completed results and download enough new workunits to keep a 2.4 Ghz cpu active for another day. (assuming, of course, that the servers are on-line, and not overloaded...)

I've been using this method (I'm network active from 2100-0700 local) for the last three weeks, and haven't had many problems yet... and those I have had, usually weren't due to lack of work, (except S@H related outages, that is...) they were modem-related. (my modem will sometimes drop ready, for no apparent reason [on my end, at least...] - and I DO know what to look for, I've been in computing since 1973!)


.

Hello, from Albany, CA!...
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Message 228774 - Posted: 10 Jan 2006, 9:27:41 UTC - in response to Message 228762.  

One solution to the dial-up question is to set your "preferences" for "network activity" to a time when you aren't going to be active on your computer - your sleep period, for example - and just before you go to bed (or whatever!) dial up the I-net. Assuming that your network connection stays active for a decent period, (45 minutes to an hour...) that should upload any completed results and download enough new workunits to keep a 2.4 Ghz cpu active for another day. (assuming, of course, that the servers are on-line, and not overloaded...)

I've been using this method (I'm network active from 2100-0700 local) for the last three weeks, and haven't had many problems yet... and those I have had, usually weren't due to lack of work, (except S@H related outages, that is...) they were modem-related. (my modem will sometimes drop ready, for no apparent reason [on my end, at least...] - and I DO know what to look for, I've been in computing since 1973!)


Think people should work it out to when both loacl time zone and Berkeley are both liable to be at their quietest. So from Europe it would be early morning, 10 pm in Europe is mid afternoon on the West Coast.
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Message 228814 - Posted: 10 Jan 2006, 12:15:57 UTC - in response to Message 228377.  

Hi,
I tried to configure a service install for my mom who wants to participate but don't want to have to actually do anything.
When I set it to automatically connect, boinc interpreted the slow connedtion procedure as a failed attempt and would not log off after completed reporting of results according to preferences. Not good of course.
Setting preferences to 'Ask before connecting' didnt work either, because no manager is run. (no graphical presentation of dialog).

I gave up and signed her up for climate prediction instead. I can report that manualy when im up there visiting since I have quite a lot mort time to work with on CPN.

/Anton


Those who really know, correct me if I've got it wrong--

I'm wondering if you couldn't network your mom's computer to yours with remote access--that way you can "service" her BOINC without having to be there---and she could then run Seti. Gotta have Seti :) Happy Crunching!


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Message 229091 - Posted: 11 Jan 2006, 0:12:08 UTC - in response to Message 228814.  

Hi,
I tried to configure a service install for my mom who wants to participate but don't want to have to actually do anything.
When I set it to automatically connect, boinc interpreted the slow connedtion procedure as a failed attempt and would not log off after completed reporting of results according to preferences. Not good of course.
Setting preferences to 'Ask before connecting' didnt work either, because no manager is run. (no graphical presentation of dialog).

I gave up and signed her up for climate prediction instead. I can report that manualy when im up there visiting since I have quite a lot mort time to work with on CPN.

/Anton


Those who really know, correct me if I've got it wrong--

I'm wondering if you couldn't network your mom's computer to yours with remote access--that way you can "service" her BOINC without having to be there---and she could then run Seti. Gotta have Seti :) Happy Crunching!

It is possible, but it involves having a permanent IP address (or having a lookup in one of the services that do this). It also involves poking holes in firewalls.


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Message 229097 - Posted: 11 Jan 2006, 0:27:25 UTC - in response to Message 228814.  

Here is some vbscript I write to solve my dial-up connection problem. I've only tested this for my specific situation (WinXP), so it may not work for you. No doubt it can be improved. Schedule to run on start-up. Basically, it looks for a RAS (modem) connection & flips the BOINC state accordingly.


' == Main Loop == '

rstate = "auto": nstate = "never"
fNetAlwaysOn = Ping("www.google.com") and (Not IsRASConnected)

Do

iCurTime = Timer

If iLastNET < -86400 Then iLastNET =iLastNET +86400
If iCurTime < iLastNET Then iLastNET =iLastNET -86400
If iCurTime >= iLastNET +900 Then fChkNET =True

If fChkNET Then
fNetAlwaysOn = Ping("www.google.com") and (Not IsRASConnected)
iLastNET = iCurTime
fChkNET = False
End If


rstate = "auto": nstate = "never"

If IsRasConnected Then
rstate = "always": nstate = "always"
End If

If fNetAlwaysOn Then
rstate = "auto": nstate = "always"
End If


If prev_state <> nstate Then

Set objShell = CreateObject("WScript.Shell")

objShell.LogEvent 4, "BOINC State: " & nstate

strBOINC = "BOINCCMD.EXE --set_run_mode " & rstate
objShell.Run strBOINC, 0, True

WScript.Sleep 5*000

strBOINC = "BOINCCMD.EXE --set_network_mode " & nstate
objShell.Run strBOINC, 0, True

prev_state = nstate

Set objShell = Nothing

End If


If iCurTime > Timer Then iCurTime = Timer +iCurTime
WScript.Sleep Max(0,(10 -(Timer -iCurTime))) *1000

Loop

WScript.Quit


'*************************************************
Function IsRASConnected
'*************************************************
Const SYSTEM_FOLDER = 1, TEMP_FOLDER = 2 ' FileSystemObject constants

Set objFSO = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")

With objFSO
' Construct a temporary filename.
Do
strTempFile = .BuildPath(.GetSpecialFolder(TEMP_FOLDER), .GetTempName)
Loop While .FileExists(strTempFile)

strCmdLine = .BuildPath(.GetSpecialFolder(SYSTEM_FOLDER), "cmd.exe") _
& " /c " & .BuildPath(.GetSpecialFolder(SYSTEM_FOLDER), "rasdial.exe") _
& " > " & strTempFile
End With

CreateObject("Wscript.Shell").Run strCmdLine, 0, True

' Open the temporary file.
Set objTS = objFSO.OpenTextFile(strTempFile, 1)

sStdOut = lcase(objTS.ReadLine)

If Not objTS.AtEndOfStream Then
Select Case sStdOut
Case "connected to": IsRASConnected = True
Case "no connections": IsRASConnected = False
Case Else: IsRASConnected = False
End Select
End If

' Close and delete the temporary file.
objTS.Close
objFSO.DeleteFile strTempFile

Set objTS = Nothing
Set objFSO = Nothing

End Function


'*********************************************
Function Ping(ByVal strHost)
' Copied from http://cwashington.netreach.net
' Check Net Connection via Ping.exe
'*********************************************
Const SYSTEM_FOLDER = 1, TEMP_FOLDER = 2 ' FileSystemObject constants

Dim objFSO, objTS
Dim strTempFile, strCmdLine
Dim objRE

Set objFSO = CreateObject("Scripting.FileSystemObject")

With objFSO
' Construct a temporary filename.
Do
strTempFile = .BuildPath(.GetSpecialFolder(TEMP_FOLDER), .GetTempName)
Loop While .FileExists(strTempFile)

' Construct the command line using cmd.exe;
' redirect the ping.exe output to the temporary file.
strCmdLine = .BuildPath(.GetSpecialFolder(SYSTEM_FOLDER), "cmd.exe") _
& " /c " & .BuildPath(.GetSpecialFolder(SYSTEM_FOLDER), "ping.exe") _
& " -n 1 " & strHost & " > " & strTempFile
End With

' Execute the command line in a hidden window.
' Wait for it to complete before continuing.
CreateObject("Wscript.Shell").Run strCmdLine, 0, True

' Create a RegExp object and set its pattern to a ping reply.
Set objRE = New RegExp
objRE.Pattern = " [0-9]{1,3}\\.[0-9]{1,3}\\.[0-9]{1,3}\\.[0-9]{1,3}: "

' Open the temporary file.
Set objTS = objFSO.OpenTextFile(strTempFile, 1)

' Function result will be True if the pattern
' was found in the temporary file's contents.
PingR = objTS.ReadAll
Ping = objRE.Test(PingR)

' Close and delete the temporary file.
objTS.Close
objFSO.DeleteFile strTempFile

Set objTS = Nothing
Set objFSO = Nothing

End Function


Function Quote(str)
Quote=chr(34) & cstr(str) & chr(34)
End Function

Function Max(a,b)
Max = a
If b > a then Max = b
End function

Function Min(a,b)
Min = a
If b < a then Min = b
End function
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Message 229110 - Posted: 11 Jan 2006, 1:30:40 UTC - in response to Message 229091.  

Hi,
I tried to configure a service install for my mom who wants to participate but don't want to have to actually do anything.
...
I gave up and signed her up for climate prediction instead. I can report that manualy when im up there visiting since I have quite a lot mort time to work with on CPN.

/Anton


Those who really know, correct me if I've got it wrong--

I'm wondering if you couldn't network your mom's computer to yours with remote access--that way you can "service" her BOINC without having to be there---and she could then run Seti. Gotta have Seti :) Happy Crunching!

It is possible, but it involves having a permanent IP address (or having a lookup in one of the services that do this). It also involves poking holes in firewalls.


All this just gave me a flash of inspiration.
What about connecting the two PCs by way of a Cross-over cable?
(Or null-modem?)

No, the honest-to-goodness truth is, while I've used both pieces of hardware at one time or another, I'm not entirely sure about the software side of things related to the two... and I really need to build on my networking knowledge...

Anybody throw me a clue or two? Thanks!

:==Cx==:
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Message 229115 - Posted: 11 Jan 2006, 1:42:15 UTC - in response to Message 228247.  
Last modified: 11 Jan 2006, 1:43:00 UTC

Actually this whole subject is one of the major problems I have with BOINC, it tries to "delay" things happening, when from basic Queuing Theory that is not what you want to do in the name of efficiency. You want to get as much through the pipe as fast as you can. It is not the objective of Queuing Theory and computers to play fair and waste time on the chance that someone else might need to use it. This "fair use" actually wastes bandwidth and time. There is no provision in Queuing Theory for being fair!
.....snip snip.......
After writing this, I am starting to wonder if they have taken Queuing Theory out of Computer Science and System Design courses, or worse, turned it into a "Feel Good about it" course.


Besides being told that it couldn't happen. I think all of my results were sent at once, or maybe more precisely, the previous starts of result returning never finished and new ones started so eventually all the results were returning at once. There were about a hundred returns. The rate the computers sent to dsl modem was 100Mb/s while the dsl upload rate is only about 256Kb/s. It DOS'd my network connection to internet. I had to stop Boinc's network access to restore access. I returned one computer to network access I have to see if It will cause problems.

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Message 229143 - Posted: 11 Jan 2006, 2:31:10 UTC - in response to Message 229110.  

Hi,
I tried to configure a service install for my mom who wants to participate but don't want to have to actually do anything.
...
I gave up and signed her up for climate prediction instead. I can report that manualy when im up there visiting since I have quite a lot mort time to work with on CPN.

/Anton


Those who really know, correct me if I've got it wrong--

I'm wondering if you couldn't network your mom's computer to yours with remote access--that way you can "service" her BOINC without having to be there---and she could then run Seti. Gotta have Seti :) Happy Crunching!

It is possible, but it involves having a permanent IP address (or having a lookup in one of the services that do this). It also involves poking holes in firewalls.


All this just gave me a flash of inspiration.
What about connecting the two PCs by way of a Cross-over cable?
(Or null-modem?)

No, the honest-to-goodness truth is, while I've used both pieces of hardware at one time or another, I'm not entirely sure about the software side of things related to the two... and I really need to build on my networking knowledge...

Anybody throw me a clue or two? Thanks!

:==Cx==:

OOPS. Are they that close together (same building)? If so, then a crossover cable (or new ethernet cards that are autosensing and a standard cable) will work. Better would be a router/switch installed between the two that can connect to the correct type of modem (cable/DSL/POTS/...)


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Message 229221 - Posted: 11 Jan 2006, 6:34:42 UTC - in response to Message 228774.  

One solution to the dial-up question is to set your "preferences" for "network activity" to a time when you aren't going to be active on your computer - your sleep period, for example - and just before you go to bed (or whatever!) dial up the I-net. Assuming that your network connection stays active for a decent period, (45 minutes to an hour...) that should upload any completed results and download enough new workunits to keep a 2.4 Ghz cpu active for another day. (assuming, of course, that the servers are on-line, and not overloaded...)

I've been using this method (I'm network active from 2100-0700 local) for the last three weeks, and haven't had many problems yet... and those I have had, usually weren't due to lack of work, (except S@H related outages, that is...) they were modem-related. (my modem will sometimes drop ready, for no apparent reason [on my end, at least...] - and I DO know what to look for, I've been in computing since 1973!)


Think people should work it out to when both local time zone and Berkeley are both liable to be at their quietest. So from Europe it would be early morning, 10 pm in Europe is mid afternoon on the West Coast.



NO, I said "your sleep period" for good reason, as that's when you won't be using the computer (other than for BOINC projects, that is)... and I'm on the same time as S@H, being only 3½ miles (about 5 Km) NE of the QTH (home location, Ham radio slang) for Seti. So my "quiet time" and berkeley's are the same. I believe that S@H is quite active all 24 hrs, though, as the users are world-wide.
.

Hello, from Albany, CA!...
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Message 229223 - Posted: 11 Jan 2006, 6:40:56 UTC - in response to Message 229221.  



NO, I said "your sleep period" for good reason, as that's when you won't be using the computer (other than for BOINC projects, that is)... and I'm on the same time as S@H, being only 3½ miles (about 5 Km) NE of the QTH (home location, Ham radio slang) for Seti. So my "quiet time" and berkeley's are the same. I believe that S@H is quite active all 24 hrs, though, as the users are world-wide.


Oops, make that "3½ miles (about 5 Km) NW of the QTH of Seti... (I'm tired, I guess!)
.

Hello, from Albany, CA!...
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Message 229236 - Posted: 11 Jan 2006, 7:52:20 UTC - in response to Message 229221.  

NO, I said "your sleep period" for good reason, as that's when you won't be using the computer (other than for BOINC projects, that is)... and I'm on the same time as S@H, being only 3½ miles (about 5 Km) NE of the QTH (home location, Ham radio slang) for Seti. So my "quiet time" and berkeley's are the same. I believe that S@H is quite active all 24 hrs, though, as the users are world-wide.


I do agree with the sleep period part but, most users are in N America and W Europe, with another bunch in Japan, Australia and New Zealand. So you will have quieter zones for 4 hours due to the Pacific ocean, and then about 6 hours from the west of Aus until a line about Berlin or Vienna.
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Message 229244 - Posted: 11 Jan 2006, 8:33:29 UTC - in response to Message 229143.  

John

OOPS. Are they that close together (same building)? If so, then a crossover cable (or new ethernet cards that are autosensing and a standard cable) will work. Better would be a router/switch installed between the two that can connect to the correct type of modem (cable/DSL/POTS/...)


No not really, She lives about an hour from where I live. Local magagement, as in a building, isn't really a problem, but as said, shes on dial-up and assigned any IP in a, I assume, fairly wide range...

She was really happy with S@H classic. She did her thing on-line and never had to worry about S@H. It just did its thing when ever she did hers. She doesn't want boinc connecting by itself. So to set network active during some hours isn't an option for her.

BIOOYA
What EXACTLY does your script do? I'm not a programmer but it seems like it pings google to test connection, if found it sets the network to always available in boinc. When connection is terminated (in any fashion?) it tells boinc network isn't available?
Do I just put it in a anyname.bat file? or in what form?
If this is correct and it works, preferably like S@H classic, excellent!
Gotta try it then.

If that works, then its just the question about getting new work without getting "communication deffered" most times.

Thanx all!
Now I dont want to hog this whole tread for myself, no doubt there are others in 'more' need.
/Anton
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Message 229258 - Posted: 11 Jan 2006, 9:25:08 UTC - in response to Message 229115.  

Ksnash wrote:
The rate the computers sent to dsl modem was 100Mb/s while the dsl upload rate is only about 256Kb/s. It DOS'd my network connection to internet.

If BOINC is using TCP this is not a problem since TCP backs off transfer speed to the slowest part of the link between endpoints faster than a sheeps wink.

It could be like JM7 says that your USR is one the models with known problems. If it has upgradable firmware take a look at the manufacturers homepage and see if it has got any updates to the fw.

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Message 229347 - Posted: 11 Jan 2006, 15:27:27 UTC

The script checks for a dial-up connection via RASdial.exe, the command line version of Windows GUI dial-up. RasDial reports whether there is an active dial-up connection or not. For info on rasdial, open the command prompt and type "rasdial /?" or google it.

The idea is that if a dial-up connection is activated (manually or by some other program), this script will change the network & processing state to always. If there is no connection, the net state is set to never, and run state to "preferences".

This code does NOT initiate a connection. If you need to automatically connect, you can schedule rasdial to connect & disconnect as specified times using Task Scheduler.

The "pinging google.com" stuff checks if there happens to be a non-rasdial connection (always-on broadband, etc) active, as one of my machines has several "options" to connect.

This is VBScript, not a batch file. You should create a text file, cut -n- paste the code into it, and name the file “whatever.VBS” (it just needs a .vbs extension). If your antivirus is set to block scripts, you will need to "approve" this script to run. Google VBscript if you want to know more about it.

I’ve been running this on several of my remote machines for a couple weeks now. It seems to have cured my dial-up problems. It may or may not work for you (but I hope it does).
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Message 230053 - Posted: 12 Jan 2006, 7:33:21 UTC - in response to Message 229244.  

John

OOPS. Are they that close together (same building)? If so, then a crossover cable (or new ethernet cards that are autosensing and a standard cable) will work. Better would be a router/switch installed between the two that can connect to the correct type of modem (cable/DSL/POTS/...)


No not really, She lives about an hour from where I live. Local magagement, as in a building, isn't really a problem, but as said, shes on dial-up and assigned any IP in a, I assume, fairly wide range...

...

BIOOYA
What EXACTLY does your script do? ... If this is correct and it works, preferably like S@H classic, excellent!
Gotta try it then.

If that works, then its just the question about getting new work without getting "communication deffered" most times.

Thanx all!
Now I dont want to hog this whole tread for myself, no doubt there are others in 'more' need.
/Anton


@ /Anton

Hey, I hope it all works out in the end.


@ *everyone*

Thanks for all your input and responses!!

I think this could grow to be quite a valuable thread, no? ;)

So... who's next? =]

>-Cx-<

Modulation-Demodulation. Ahh, the memories... BBS's, TheDraw, Overkill...
To think I used em way back in the time of 1.2k and 2.4k baud! 8^)
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RAC: 67
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Message 230057 - Posted: 12 Jan 2006, 7:43:10 UTC - in response to Message 230053.  

Modulation-Demodulation. Ahh, the memories... BBS's, TheDraw, Overkill...
To think I used em way back in the time of 1.2k and 2.4k baud! 8^)


Rookie

try 75 baud

ID: 230057 · Report as offensive
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Message boards : Number crunching : Brainstorming facilities for DIAL-UP BOINCers - pls contribute!


 
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