What ever happened to KISS

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R. Terry McCutchen

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Message 208465 - Posted: 9 Dec 2005, 23:14:03 UTC

Look Guys; This BOINC ... stuff ISN'T HACKING IT. I am an IT Management Consultant. I have worked world wide with LOTS of clients. In many cases I have "sold" them on running SETI as a screen saver because it is:
a) SIMPLE
b) Pretty
c) MAYBE Usefull
These people (like the New Jersey Treasury Department or the government of Moldova) ARE NOT INTERESTED in a complex academically interesting tool. They just take my advice and get a pretty screen saver that they can simply install (like connect to na web site and click a download).

BOINC is NONE of these (except posibally interesting). I know that at least some 500 to 1000 desktops are not going to even LOOK at SETI/BOINC (because *I* wouldn't dare even mention it to them. I have already told them that seti has escentially died and to go to one of the "normal" screen savers).

Can someone, somehow get a new seti down load setup. All I care is that it LOOK like classic seti so I can tell NON COMPUTER folks to just go to a web site and click on something and they will get an interesting display and maybe do some usefull work in their computer's spare time.

I am VERY furstrated at what this change is doing to what was a really neat project.


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Message 208528 - Posted: 10 Dec 2005, 0:10:48 UTC

Then my advice Terry would be to stop pretending to be something you are obviously not! Actually that is not very nice, but I AM NOT an "IT MANAGEMENT CONSULTANT" but managed to get it up and running on 16 pc's! If you are really that unknowledgeable then maybe your clients would be better served by something that you can understand. It IS a point and click type program that has just a very small amount of security built in. ALL the security stuff is done up front, in the beginning, and is limited to signing up for an account and entering that info into the program. Beyond that there is NOTHING else to do. The program runs EXACTLY like Seti Classic, it even uses the same program to do the crunching of the units!!! NO you cannot use the old program after the 15th of December, it was riddled with Security issues, an IT person should understand about stuff like that, eh?
Boinc has been successfully installed and run by over 300,000 people, it can't be THAT hard to figure out! It has also been running "live" for over a year, it was in Beta for at least 6 months before that. Now is NOT the time to be complaining about it.

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Message 208595 - Posted: 10 Dec 2005, 1:26:17 UTC

Well, sorry that you don't see BOINC in that light. Like all volunteer programs/projects, we'll just have to make do without your 500-1000 computers.

Please, look us up again in the future and see if you're willing to give us another shot. We'll be here waiting!
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Message 209509 - Posted: 10 Dec 2005, 19:54:45 UTC

The Big Picture with Matt Lebofsky
And the beat goes on
Sonny and Cher

BOINC Wiki

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R. Terry McCutchen

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Message 209700 - Posted: 10 Dec 2005, 23:13:56 UTC
Last modified: 10 Dec 2005, 23:18:43 UTC

Welll;
seti@home brought into play any number of home and office systems owned and used by non computer experts. The installation instructions for it were: "1 - Go to the seti web site, 2 - Down load the seti screen saver, 3 - Watch it run". This is SIMPLE and does not require any work or thought on the part of the user. I doubt that many of these epople bothered to setup much of an account even.

Now my point is that this BOINC stuff will lose those people. I see that BOINC has some very aggressive goals to exceed the number of participants that seti had. I fail to see how they can do that with a tool that requires as much work as BOINC does. With classic seti I was able to either tell a user (see above) or in a few spare minutes bring it up.

IT is not the 500 or so computers that I know about but the ones like them (i.e. owned by people who didn't care about them as computers) that I don't know about and that I question whether BOINC ever thought about.

As for security; what is the issue here? Does anyone actually care about it? If so, then why? Have there been problems or is this an example of security for security's sake?

/s/ Terry

BTW I still haven't found a simple set of instructions on getting my screen saver working using BOINC!!!
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R. Terry McCutchen

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Message 209725 - Posted: 10 Dec 2005, 23:30:43 UTC - in response to Message 208528.  
Last modified: 10 Dec 2005, 23:31:39 UTC

Well ....
I certainally have over the past 35 years been paid enough as an "IT management consultant" that I think I can sucesfully claim to be one. I also have the various alphabetic soup and resume that people seem to think I am one. (Note I said It Management Consultant NOT PC Tech.) Admittedly I am retired now and only have one product generally available comercially.

Then my advice Terry would be to stop pretending to be something you are obviously not! Actually that is not very nice, but I AM NOT an "IT MANAGEMENT CONSULTANT" but managed to get it up and running on 16 pc's! If you are really that unknowledgeable then maybe your clients would be better served by something that you can understand. It IS a point and click type program that has just a very small amount of security built in. ALL the security stuff is done up front, in the beginning, and is limited to signing up for an account and entering that info into the program. Beyond that there is NOTHING else to do. The program runs EXACTLY like Seti Classic, it even uses the same program to do the crunching of the units!!! NO you cannot use the old program after the 15th of December, it was riddled with Security issues, an IT person should understand about stuff like that, eh?
Boinc has been successfully installed and run by over 300,000 people, it can't be THAT hard to figure out! It has also been running "live" for over a year, it was in Beta for at least 6 months before that. Now is NOT the time to be complaining about it.


I suspect that one of the reasons this version will have problems is that the project was not publicized enough outside the technical community. Having 18 months in test tells me nothing about the quality of the testing or what the specification was for the product.

Do you have any demographic data on those 300,000 people (is that a user census, a node census, a system census or just what?)

We can continue this offline if you wich. My email is TerryMcCutchen@msn.com.
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Message 209730 - Posted: 10 Dec 2005, 23:34:44 UTC

Did you read the post by Matt that was linked to a few posts earlier?


BOINC WIKI
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R. Terry McCutchen

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Message 210139 - Posted: 11 Dec 2005, 8:51:23 UTC - in response to Message 209730.  

Hi;
I can't seem to find it. BTW the new BOINC install/startup MAY solve some of yhe current problems.

/s/ Terry

Did you read the post by Matt that was linked to a few posts earlier?


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Message 214976 - Posted: 15 Dec 2005, 20:49:20 UTC - in response to Message 209700.  

Welll;
seti@home brought into play any number of home and office systems owned and used by non computer experts. The installation instructions for it were: "1 - Go to the seti web site, 2 - Down load the seti screen saver, 3 - Watch it run". This is SIMPLE and does not require any work or thought on the part of the user. I doubt that many of these epople bothered to setup much of an account even.

Now my point is that this BOINC stuff will lose those people. I see that BOINC has some very aggressive goals to exceed the number of participants that seti had. I fail to see how they can do that with a tool that requires as much work as BOINC does. With classic seti I was able to either tell a user (see above) or in a few spare minutes bring it up.

IT is not the 500 or so computers that I know about but the ones like them (i.e. owned by people who didn't care about them as computers) that I don't know about and that I question whether BOINC ever thought about.

As for security; what is the issue here? Does anyone actually care about it? If so, then why? Have there been problems or is this an example of security for security's sake?

/s/ Terry

BTW I still haven't found a simple set of instructions on getting my screen saver working using BOINC!!!


I agree 100% There is goint to be a lot of people leaving and not joining because of this "Shoddy" change and the "smart ass" attitude of the so called experts. My experience of academics over the years is that the tend to have no common sense and certainly do not live in the real world or at least the one most of the seti classic users live in.

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Message 214989 - Posted: 15 Dec 2005, 20:59:23 UTC - in response to Message 214976.  

My experience of academics over the years is that the tend to have no common sense and certainly do not live in the real world or at least the one most of the seti classic users live in.

Which is the past... are you still running DOS and Windows 3.11?
Do you still use a 300 baud connection to get onto the internet?
Does your TV have 1 channel?
Does your car resemble a model T Ford?

All the complaints aside, the Seti science application under BOINC is running fine. BOINC is running fine. It may have some glitches, but on the whole it is running fine.

If you want help to set it up, we're here to help.
If you're only passing along to complain, then please do so with some statistical and factual conversation, instead of BS and hearsay. We've had enough people trying to explain to the devs where they went wrong all the way to death-wishes and threats. Come into the future, Classicer's. Wake up! It's the 21st Century with 21st Century hardware and software!! Wake up and smell your chance!
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Message 215333 - Posted: 16 Dec 2005, 3:20:19 UTC - in response to Message 214976.  

I agree 100% There is goint to be a lot of people leaving and not joining because of this "Shoddy" change and the "smart ass" attitude of the so called experts. My experience of academics over the years is that the tend to have no common sense and certainly do not live in the real world or at least the one most of the seti classic users live in.


Interesting. I am not in academics, so I do not take that as a direct insult to me. However, I find that people are too used to hand-holding, dumbed down, give-me-what-I-want-or-I'll-go-elsewhere, spoiled by a free market that want everything handed to them type attitudes that have no real vision of the Big Picture. They don't care to learn anymore about what they're getting themselves into, they just want it to work and they want it to be easy. From my experience, nothing in life is like that nor is life very easy.

If you ask me, I'd say it's the casual person that isn't living in the real world.


PS - I know the above is going to get me flamed, but regardless, it's the way I feel and I think it's too close to the truth and that is what will piss some people off.
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Message 217273 - Posted: 18 Dec 2005, 13:02:48 UTC - in response to Message 215333.  

However, I find that people are too used to hand-holding, dumbed down, give-me-what-I-want-or-I'll-go-elsewhere, spoiled by a free market that want everything handed to them type attitudes that have no real vision of the Big Picture


rofl

i believe your findings are correct.


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Message 217840 - Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 5:16:13 UTC - in response to Message 217273.  

However, I find that people are too used to hand-holding, dumbed down, give-me-what-I-want-or-I'll-go-elsewhere, spoiled by a free market that want everything handed to them type attitudes that have no real vision of the Big Picture


rofl

i believe your findings are correct.


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Message 217850 - Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 5:50:51 UTC - in response to Message 217273.  

However, I find that people are too used to hand-holding, dumbed down, give-me-what-I-want-or-I'll-go-elsewhere, spoiled by a free market that want everything handed to them type attitudes that have no real vision of the Big Picture


rofl

i believe your findings are correct.

I am one of those "find and peck" computer idiots! I But i must not be the only one! Read through this forum !! BOINC sucks. And from what I've read here a majority of those who will be running BOINC will be a bunch of smart-#sses!! But don't worry I won't let the door hit me in the #ss on the way out! Good-bye SETI and It's so nice to know all that free computer time was so appreciated.
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Message 217880 - Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 7:30:45 UTC - in response to Message 217850.  

However, I find that people are too used to hand-holding, dumbed down, give-me-what-I-want-or-I'll-go-elsewhere, spoiled by a free market that want everything handed to them type attitudes that have no real vision of the Big Picture


rofl

i believe your findings are correct.

I am one of those "find and peck" computer idiots! I But i must not be the only one! Read through this forum !! BOINC sucks. And from what I've read here a majority of those who will be running BOINC will be a bunch of smart-#sses!! But don't worry I won't let the door hit me in the #ss on the way out! Good-bye SETI and It's so nice to know all that free computer time was so appreciated.


Yes, who are volunteers just like you, have read this forum because we've answered most of them. If it is so difficult, how come over 80,000 new users have connected their computers and have been granted credit since the final warning on Classic was sent out less than a month ago. Ergo it's not difficult, but if you have a specific problem, ask, and usually even if we don't know the answer we can find someone who does.

The most common problems are, in no particular order, there is a problem at the servers and you cannot connect, graphics cards and drivers, firewalls, other badly behaved programs that try to use resources on the host computer already allocated to BOINC/Project at start up, which probably ran fine until BOINC was loaded, badly configured computers.


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Message 217949 - Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 11:59:23 UTC - in response to Message 217850.  

I am one of those "find and peck" computer idiots! I But i must not be the only one! Read through this forum !! BOINC sucks. And from what I've read here a majority of those who will be running BOINC will be a bunch of smart-#sses!! But don't worry I won't let the door hit me in the #ss on the way out! Good-bye SETI and It's so nice to know all that free computer time was so appreciated.


Yes, listening to the complaint department is the best way to find out how many people enjoy the software. [Sarcasm intended]

The "majority" that you're reading here, is only 1% of the overall total users. Somehow, I don't think BOINC is going to lose too many people.

Funny how people will try to create their own cliques. There is no "computer idiots" vs. "smart arses". BOINC is for everyone, and I have seen a bunch of computer illiterate users install BOINC just find without issue.

The problems are contained to just a few.
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Message 218150 - Posted: 19 Dec 2005, 18:01:26 UTC

Everytime I see this thread come back, I want to answer in here:

What ever happened to KISS

What, you mean these guys?

Horrible 80's 'hardrock band'.. You can find them still alive and kicking on KISSOnline.com.


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Message 222596 - Posted: 29 Dec 2005, 4:00:58 UTC
Last modified: 29 Dec 2005, 4:01:37 UTC


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Message 222597 - Posted: 29 Dec 2005, 4:00:58 UTC
Last modified: 29 Dec 2005, 4:05:59 UTC

What amazes me is the arrogant stupidity of those supposedly answering.
If you want to turn people off, you responders are doing a great job.
And you're turning off a lot of people with 2 things
Your idiot responses.
Your lack of answers.

You need VOLUNTEERS to connect their computers to this software to get work done on these projects.
And all you're doing is basically turning people off.

That's just plain dumb.

I'll come back when
-- the marching morons do more than put down the people who want help
-- you have a product that works as easily as the old version of SETI

I figure someone is going to wake up soon and smell the coffee and figure out that the current situation is not a good thing.


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Message 222756 - Posted: 29 Dec 2005, 12:24:07 UTC - in response to Message 222597.  

What amazes me is the arrogant stupidity of those supposedly answering.
If you want to turn people off, you responders are doing a great job.
And you're turning off a lot of people with 2 things
Your idiot responses.
Your lack of answers.

You need VOLUNTEERS to connect their computers to this software to get work done on these projects.
And all you're doing is basically turning people off.

That's just plain dumb.

I'll come back when
-- the marching morons do more than put down the people who want help
-- you have a product that works as easily as the old version of SETI

I figure someone is going to wake up soon and smell the coffee and figure out that the current situation is not a good thing.



I'm just amazed with the number of people who just complain and don't ask questions to help resolve their problems.
So I'm not amazed that you get an answer at all
And that you cannot seem to get Boinc going or DL Wu's


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