Religious Thread [5] - CLOSED

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Message 176899 - Posted: 12 Oct 2005, 1:14:17 UTC - in response to Message 176894.  

That sounds more agnostic than atheist.

Thank you for making that distinction.

Agnosticism is the lack of any religion. Atheism is the belief-without-proof that there absolutely is no entity that most religions would describe as "God." Note that belief-without-proof merely connotes a "faith" and not a "religion." A religion requires dogma and usually myth.

Dogma can be as simple as taking offense at personifying the Universe (that is, any reference to "God"). The myth can be as simple as acepting the word of scientists without question. If find it hard to believe anyone reading this thread falls into that latter category.
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Message 176905 - Posted: 12 Oct 2005, 1:17:08 UTC - in response to Message 176892.  

Atheism is NOT a belief. You don't need Faith not to believe.

Science is not a religion.

Agnosticism is not a belief. Atheism requires the belief-without-proof that there absolutely is no entity that most religions would describe as "God." Belief without some reasonable level of proof falls under most cultural anthropologists' definition of "faith."
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Message 176906 - Posted: 12 Oct 2005, 1:21:51 UTC - in response to Message 176905.  
Last modified: 12 Oct 2005, 1:25:16 UTC

Atheism is NOT a belief. You don't need Faith not to believe.

Science is not a religion.

Agnosticism is not a belief. Atheism requires the belief-without-proof that there absolutely is no entity that most religions would describe as "God." Belief without some reasonable level of proof falls under most cultural anthropologists' definition of "faith."


Your twist of logic is a fascinating and amazing exercise in mental masturbation.


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Message 176909 - Posted: 12 Oct 2005, 1:26:39 UTC
Last modified: 12 Oct 2005, 1:26:56 UTC

atheist: One who denies the existence of God.
atheism: 1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God. 2. The quality or state of being godless.

agnostic: One who believes that there can be no proof of the existence of God but does not deny the possibility that God exists.
agnosticism: 1. The doctrines of the agnostics, holding that certainty or first or absolute truths are unattainable and that only perceptual phenomena are objects of exact knowledge. 2. A theological theory that does not deny God but denies the possibility of knowing Him.
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Message 176962 - Posted: 12 Oct 2005, 4:29:04 UTC
Last modified: 12 Oct 2005, 4:49:44 UTC

Praise God!
While mud buries the schoolhouses
Full of kids wearing the Rosary
It's not His fault
He's only God

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Message 176997 - Posted: 12 Oct 2005, 7:02:23 UTC - in response to Message 176909.  

atheist: One who denies the existence of God.
atheism: 1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God. 2. The quality or state of being godless.

agnostic: One who believes that there can be no proof of the existence of God but does not deny the possibility that God exists.
agnosticism: 1. The doctrines of the agnostics, holding that certainty or first or absolute truths are unattainable and that only perceptual phenomena are objects of exact knowledge. 2. A theological theory that does not deny God but denies the possibility of knowing Him.


Definitely an Atheist then. A disbelief in god is not the same as a belief there is no god. These statements do not commute.

It seems strange to me that religious people can invent imaginary people and then thrust you into another 'religion' just because don't believe them. They must find the idea that someone can survive without belief very threatening.
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Message 177086 - Posted: 12 Oct 2005, 13:50:19 UTC - in response to Message 176997.  

atheist: One who denies the existence of God.
atheism: 1. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God. 2. The quality or state of being godless.

agnostic: One who believes that there can be no proof of the existence of God but does not deny the possibility that God exists.
agnosticism: 1. The doctrines of the agnostics, holding that certainty or first or absolute truths are unattainable and that only perceptual phenomena are objects of exact knowledge. 2. A theological theory that does not deny God but denies the possibility of knowing Him.


Definitely an Atheist then. A disbelief in god is not the same as a belief there is no god. These statements do not commute.

Your statement doesn't follow from the definitions above. The term 'disbelief' is being used in the normative sense of 'belief that X is not true.' This sounds like hairsplitting, but it is the defining difference between the two groups.

Atheist: There is no god.
Agnostic: Whatever.
Monotheist: There is but one God and He is almigty.
Agnostic: Get a life.
Polytheist: The motive force of the Universe cannot be understood as any one entity.
Athiest: There is no one god, and there certainly aren't multiple gods.
Monotheist: You will all burn in Hell.
Athiest: There is no Hell.
Polytheist: There is no Heaven, either, since we will all reincarnate.
Agnostic: You are all making my head hurt. The only demonstrable power of religion I've ever witnessed... is making my head hurt.
No animals were harmed in the making of the above post... much.
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Message 177095 - Posted: 12 Oct 2005, 14:08:42 UTC - in response to Message 177086.  
Last modified: 12 Oct 2005, 14:11:36 UTC


Your statement doesn't follow from the definitions above. The term 'disbelief' is being used in the normative sense of 'belief that X is not true.' This sounds like hairsplitting, but it is the defining difference between the two groups.

Atheist: There is no god.
Agnostic: Whatever.
Monotheist: There is but one God and He is almigty.
Agnostic: Get a life.
Polytheist: The motive force of the Universe cannot be understood as any one entity.
Athiest: There is no one god, and there certainly aren't multiple gods.
Monotheist: You will all burn in Hell.
Athiest: There is no Hell.
Polytheist: There is no Heaven, either, since we will all reincarnate.
Agnostic: You are all making my head hurt. The only demonstrable power of religion I've ever witnessed... is making my head hurt.


LOL.

Well I don't know what I am then. I seem to agree with the agnositc and the athiest in your role play! I'm confused and my head hurts. If you prove to me there is a god then I will believe it. Otherwise why even bother believing there isn't one? There is so much other stuff I could go round firmly believing in the non-existance of. When you start including things that you don't believe in as beliefs then you're opening up a world of things that you believe you don't believe in.

I'm giving up atheism and I'm going to start believing that my shoes aren't my friends and they don't sing Aretha Franklin songs to me at night. It's a much more interesting thing not to believe in.

[Edited loads of times because I can't even spell belief.]
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Message 177103 - Posted: 12 Oct 2005, 14:42:18 UTC
Last modified: 12 Oct 2005, 15:01:28 UTC

Anyone up to sacraficing some virgins to the Gods?
Or for some form of entertainment shall we crank up the Inquisition?
Have another crusade perhaps to free the "holyland" from the infidel?
Build some extermination camps and crank up the ovens?
Maybe a nice jihad will do?
Perhaps we should be champions of the poor, but force them to have as many children as possible.
Ignorance knows no bounds, but is alway respectable in the correct time and
place when done in some gods' name. Why not, others have done it in the past, and continue to do so today.

The numbers of human beings sacrificed on the altar of religion in the past 4,000 years who have been butchered in the name of some god, Ba'al, Allah, Zeus, Jesus run into a hefty midrange nine figures or better; either directly or indirectly. But just in sarcasim I'll say, "that was Gods will."

And please don't regale me with the "people are sinners," it's not gods' fault crap. People, mere mortals, creat their own gods, and perpetuate their own legends and myths.

I don't need a god, and for that matter, want nothing to do with the ensuing hypocrisy, intolerance, and bloodshed.

Rant kept to an absolute minimum, so have a nice day.








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Message 177337 - Posted: 13 Oct 2005, 1:22:38 UTC
Last modified: 13 Oct 2005, 1:26:28 UTC

oops! ;)
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Message 177338 - Posted: 13 Oct 2005, 1:23:02 UTC

I've been biting my tongue for a long time now while trifling through these long posts of religious nonsense. I would suggest both parties (Believers and Nonbelievers) read their Bibles and learn the material before trying to have a debate about God.

1. God does not promise an easy life for the TRUE believer.
2. God does not approve of the terrible things done by the hypocrites in his name.
3. God will not allow sinners into his kingdom on judgment day.

As a believer God wants YOU to live a righteous life and NOT force it on others. God gives everyone free will, the choice is theirs to make and not yours.

As a nonbeliever this is your world, enjoy it, and quit wasting so much time babbling about the things you obviously don't understand or even care to understand.

I've never understood all this nonsense, you either believe or you don't!
PERIOD! ;)
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Message 177360 - Posted: 13 Oct 2005, 1:57:36 UTC - in response to Message 177338.  

I've been biting my tongue for a long time now while trifling through these long posts of religious nonsense. I would suggest both parties (Believers and Nonbelievers) read their Bibles and learn the material before trying to have a debate about God.

1. God does not promise an easy life for the TRUE believer.
2. God does not approve of the terrible things done by the hypocrites in his name.
3. God will not allow sinners into his kingdom on judgment day.

As a believer God wants YOU to live a righteous life and NOT force it on others. God gives everyone free will, the choice is theirs to make and not yours.

As a nonbeliever this is your world, enjoy it, and quit wasting so much time babbling about the things you obviously don't understand or even care to understand.

I've never understood all this nonsense, you either believe or you don't!
PERIOD! ;)


Jeffery, you seem somewhat limited in your view of these issues, the purpose of this thread and the primary reason for message boards in general.

First, there have not been any recent attempts to force beliefs on anyone, either by the atheists or the theists. Second, my Holy book isn't the Bible anyway (though I do respect it), and I'm not a Biblical scholar but I know enough to hold my own here. Third: who are these sinners; what sins keep them from heaven; what, in your opinion, is heaven? (A multitude of further questions come to mind from your post.)

These discussions are important to both "sides" as they allow some education, each of the other, and an opportunity to understand, elucidate and polish positions. For example, an atheist may use these discussions to firm up his or her reasons for believing the way he or she has chosen to believe.
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Message 177378 - Posted: 13 Oct 2005, 2:58:22 UTC

Holy Bible: '10 Commandments'

1. Do not worship any other gods besides me.
2. Do not make or worship idols.
3. Do not misuse the name of the Lord your God.
4. Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it Holy.
5. Honor your Father and your Mother.
6. Do not murder.
7. Do not commit adultery.
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not testify falsely against your neighbor.
10. Do not covet your neighbors wife or possessions.

The Koran: 'The Believers'

Prosperous are the believers
who in their prayers are humble
and from idle talk turn away
and at almsgiving are active
and guard their private parts
save from their wives and what their right hands own
then being not blameworthy
(but whoever seeks after more than that,
those are the transgressors)
and who preserve their trusts
and their covenant
and who observe their prayers.
Those are the inheritors
who shall inherit Paradise
therein dwelling forever.


I acknowledge there are many gods but there is only one God that offers eternal life after death, and based on the above 'rules', why anyone would not accept this is beyond me. ;)
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Message 177388 - Posted: 13 Oct 2005, 3:17:47 UTC - in response to Message 177378.  


Holy Bible: '10 Commandments'

...

The Koran: 'The Believers'

...



And, while we're at it, here's the List of the 613 Mitzvot in Judaism!



"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me

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Message 177412 - Posted: 13 Oct 2005, 5:01:41 UTC - in response to Message 177378.  

I acknowledge there are many gods but there is only one God that offers eternal life after death, and based on the above 'rules', why anyone would not accept this is beyond me. ;)


Christians, Jews and Muslims all believe in the same God--the God of Abraham. Baha‘is believe that Buddhists, Hindus and Zoroastrians (among others) also believe in that same God. And what do you mean by "eternal life after death"?
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Message 177414 - Posted: 13 Oct 2005, 5:09:30 UTC - in response to Message 177378.  

However Christianity follows the NEW testament (or covenant). I'm having WW flashbacks. Isn't this how it started before?
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Message 177420 - Posted: 13 Oct 2005, 5:17:02 UTC - in response to Message 177414.  

However Christianity follows the NEW testament (or covenant). I'm having WW flashbacks. Isn't this how it started before?


Wasn't it about this time last year, WW started? ;-)

With culmination in December?



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Message 177432 - Posted: 13 Oct 2005, 6:02:13 UTC - in response to Message 177420.  
Last modified: 13 Oct 2005, 6:56:30 UTC

However Christianity follows the NEW testament (or covenant). I'm having WW flashbacks. Isn't this how it started before?

Wasn't it about this time last year, WW started? ;-)

With culmination in December?


Relax! I'm just responding to Jeffrey's comments. Strangely, by his first comments, he seemed to think this thread was pointless, yet now he has posted his own belief. I am certain that he will be hounded mercilessly if he starts some sort of religious trolling.
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Message 177469 - Posted: 13 Oct 2005, 10:24:50 UTC - in response to Message 177414.  
Last modified: 13 Oct 2005, 10:25:02 UTC

However Christianity follows the NEW testament (or covenant). I'm having WW flashbacks. Isn't this how it started before?


ROTFLMFAO

It was getting a little boring around here.


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Message 177499 - Posted: 13 Oct 2005, 12:20:26 UTC - in response to Message 177338.  

I've been biting my tongue for a long time now while trifling through these long posts of religious nonsense. I would suggest both parties (Believers and Nonbelievers) read their Bibles and learn the material before trying to have a debate about God.

...........


As a non-believer I'm trying to figure out what MY "Bible" is?

-Mrs. anon
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