PLEASE DO SOMETHING TO MAKE SETI@HOME ENJOYABLE FOR MAC USERS

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Bruno Brookes

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Message 171897 - Posted: 26 Sep 2005, 0:30:59 UTC
Last modified: 26 Sep 2005, 0:31:24 UTC

HEY GUYS AT SETI. I'VE BEEN A MEMBER SINCE 2001 AND HAVE UP TILL BOINC APPEARED HAVE ENJOYED THE THRILL PATICIPATING. I WAS PROUD TO BE IN THE TOP 4% OF CRUNCHERS. NOW I HAVE TRIED TIRELESSLY TO GET BOINC TO WOTK USING OSX 10.2.8, BUT I/M BANGING MY HEAD AGAINST A BRICK WALL. THERE'S NO ADVICE, LINK OR HELP AT HAND.
AND I CAN'T AFFORD TO UPGRADE TO OSX 10.4 JUST TO PLEASE SETI.
CMON GUYS, IT SEEMS THE PROJECT HAS GROWN TOO BIG FOR IT'S OWN BOOTS AND FOR THOSE THAT HELP STIT TO BE WHAT IS IS TODAY, THERE DOES NOT SEEM TO BE ANY SHOW OF APPRECIATION.
PLEASE DO SOMETHING !!
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Message 171915 - Posted: 26 Sep 2005, 2:41:48 UTC

No need to shout... A lot of work is currently being done to improve the installation and setup process for BOINC, to make it easier for new users to get it running. However, for many reasons, it is very unlikely that much if any effort will be spent getting all the projects to work under OSX 10.2 - there are a LOT of internal code changes in OSX between 10.2 and 10.3 and 10.4; creating optimized SETI clients for G4s for example requires a different compile just for 10.3 vs. 10.4. The number of people still using 10.2 is small enough that it is unlikely you'll see anyone spending the time. For whatever reason, the changes on the Windows side have been much smaller; many programs written for XP will still run even under Win95. The Mac has always had a great deal of "backwards compatibility" - I could run a solitaire game written for the ORIGINAL Mac 128K, in 1984, on my first OSX 10.1 G5... (haven't tried it lately). "Reverse" compatibility on the other hand is somewhat less; programs written for OSX certainly won't run on OS 9, and even some programs for OSX 10.4 won't run on OSX 10.3. Most of us are grateful that SETI even HAS a Mac version - some BOINC projects just don't bother, and are Windows-only or Windows-and-Linux. I don't think you can reasonably blame SETI for not supporting a Mac OS that is probably in use on a small percentage of Macs that are even capable of providing the power necessary to "crunch".
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Message 172344 - Posted: 27 Sep 2005, 17:51:32 UTC

Bruno:
Go find a friend who recently upgraded from 10.3 to 10.4 and ask for his/her old 10.3 OS install disks. You might luck out and get a free upgrade to 10.3.x - then start up Software Update and update to 10.3.9, and install BOINC!

C

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Message 186157 - Posted: 5 Nov 2005, 21:34:42 UTC - in response to Message 171915.  

No need to shout... A lot of work is currently being done to improve the installation and setup process for BOINC, to make it easier for new users to get it running. However, for many reasons, it is very unlikely that much if any effort will be spent getting all the projects to work under OSX 10.2 - there are a LOT of internal code changes in OSX between 10.2 and 10.3 and 10.4; creating optimized SETI clients for G4s for example requires a different compile just for 10.3 vs. 10.4. The number of people still using 10.2 is small enough that it is unlikely you'll see anyone spending the time. For whatever reason, the changes on the Windows side have been much smaller; many programs written for XP will still run even under Win95. The Mac has always had a great deal of "backwards compatibility" - I could run a solitaire game written for the ORIGINAL Mac 128K, in 1984, on my first OSX 10.1 G5... (haven't tried it lately). "Reverse" compatibility on the other hand is somewhat less; programs written for OSX certainly won't run on OS 9, and even some programs for OSX 10.4 won't run on OSX 10.3. Most of us are grateful that SETI even HAS a Mac version - some BOINC projects just don't bother, and are Windows-only or Windows-and-Linux. I don't think you can reasonably blame SETI for not supporting a Mac OS that is probably in use on a small percentage of Macs that are even capable of providing the power necessary to "crunch".

=====
Hi, I understand what is said, but seems to me what is not said is that most don't know the code, Unix based for OSX and won't take time to learn. At one time, the Mac processors were favored because of their speed and cruching processor. Interesting, BTW the same percentage of folks who buy BMIs also buy Macs...so many computers lost to the service of science. So many could take a little looking at programs in the Mac community; many Mac folks would probably do so for free, even as volunteers. I will mention this to my computer club, where would they volunteer? Is there an Open Code section for SETI where they might begin? I know so many Wins folks who have migrated to Mac because of Unix. When Mac uses a Pent processor wonder if things will be different in SETI.

Well, my Mac just barely works with BIONIC; Seti does best but Climate is almost a non usuable project for me. I can't figure out how to remove climate from my Mac, but I may just delete it and all its related files. Hopefully, I can install it on one of my Winds machines and leave SETI on the Mac. Wish there were a preference button on climate and a resources division button on all Bionic projects...there are not on SETIU nor Climate.

To tell the truth, the Mac is the innovator with its Unix and some just won't migrate to that. Why not give it a second thought Bionic?

Oh, well...thanks for doing what you can to make Boinic usuable...keep it up.
Robert L. Hanson, Ed.D.
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Message 186160 - Posted: 5 Nov 2005, 21:38:15 UTC - in response to Message 186157.  

[quote]No need to shout... A lot of work is currently being done to improve the installation and setup process for BOINC, to make it easier for new users to get it running. However, for many reasons, it is very unlikely that much if any effort will be spent getting all the projects to work under OSX 10.2 - there are a LOT of internal code changes in OSX between 10.2 and 10.3 and 10.4; creating optimized SETI clients for G4s for example requires a different compile just for 10.3 vs. 10.4. The number of people still using 10.2 is small enough that it is unlikely you'll see anyone spending the time. For whatever reason, the changes on the Windows side have been much smaller; many programs written for XP will still run even under Win95. The Mac has always had a great deal of "backwards compatibility" - I could run a solitaire game written for the ORIGINAL Mac 128K, in 1984, on my first OSX 10.1 G5... (haven't tried it lately). "Reverse" compatibility on the other hand is somewhat less; programs written for OSX certainly won't run on OS 9, and even some programs for OSX 10.4 won't run on OSX 10.3. Most of us are grateful that SETI even HAS a Mac version - some BOINC projects just don't bother, and are Windows-only or Windows-and-Linux. I don't think you can reasonably blame SETI for not supporting a Mac OS that is probably in use on a small percentage of Macs that are even capable of providing the power necessary to "crunch".

=====
Please excuse my typos on the reply above...
Robert L. Hanson, Ed.D.
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Message 186162 - Posted: 5 Nov 2005, 21:42:27 UTC - in response to Message 186157.  

No need to shout... A lot of work is currently being done to improve the installation and setup process for BOINC, to make it easier for new users to get it running. However, for many reasons, it is very unlikely that much if any effort will be spent getting all the projects to work under OSX 10.2 - there are a LOT of internal code changes in OSX between 10.2 and 10.3 and 10.4; creating optimized SETI clients for G4s for example requires a different compile just for 10.3 vs. 10.4. The number of people still using 10.2 is small enough that it is unlikely you'll see anyone spending the time. For whatever reason, the changes on the Windows side have been much smaller; many programs written for XP will still run even under Win95. The Mac has always had a great deal of "backwards compatibility" - I could run a solitaire game written for the ORIGINAL Mac 128K, in 1984, on my first OSX 10.1 G5... (haven't tried it lately). "Reverse" compatibility on the other hand is somewhat less; programs written for OSX certainly won't run on OS 9, and even some programs for OSX 10.4 won't run on OSX 10.3. Most of us are grateful that SETI even HAS a Mac version - some BOINC projects just don't bother, and are Windows-only or Windows-and-Linux. I don't think you can reasonably blame SETI for not supporting a Mac OS that is probably in use on a small percentage of Macs that are even capable of providing the power necessary to "crunch".

=====
Hi, I understand what is said, but seems to me what is not said is that most don't know the code, Unix based for OSX and won't take time to learn. At one time, the Mac processors were favored because of their speed and cruching processor. Interesting, BTW the same percentage of folks who buy BMIs also buy Macs...so many computers lost to the service of science. So many could take a little looking at programs in the Mac community; many Mac folks would probably do so for free, even as volunteers. I will mention this to my computer club, where would they volunteer? Is there an Open Code section for SETI where they might begin? I know so many Wins folks who have migrated to Mac because of Unix. When Mac uses a Pent processor wonder if things will be different in SETI.

Well, my Mac just barely works with BIONIC; Seti does best but Climate is almost a non usuable project for me. I can't figure out how to remove climate from my Mac, but I may just delete it and all its related files. Hopefully, I can install it on one of my Winds machines and leave SETI on the Mac. Wish there were a preference button on climate and a resources division button on all Bionic projects...there are not on SETIU nor Climate.

To tell the truth, the Mac is the innovator with its Unix and some just won't migrate to that. Why not give it a second thought Bionic?

Oh, well...thanks for doing what you can to make Boinic usuable...keep it up.

=========
Pardon the typos in the above...

Robert L. Hanson, Ed.D.
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Message 186386 - Posted: 6 Nov 2005, 17:44:52 UTC - in response to Message 186160.  

[quote]No need to shout... A lot of work is currently being done to improve the installation and setup process for BOINC, to make it easier for new users to get it running. However, for many reasons, it is very unlikely that much if any effort will be spent getting all the projects to work under OSX 10.2 - there are a LOT of internal code changes in OSX between 10.2 and 10.3 and 10.4; creating optimized SETI clients for G4s for example requires a different compile just for 10.3 vs. 10.4. The number of people still using 10.2 is small enough that it is unlikely you'll see anyone spending the time. For whatever reason, the changes on the Windows side have been much smaller; many programs written for XP will still run even under Win95. The Mac has always had a great deal of "backwards compatibility" - I could run a solitaire game written for the ORIGINAL Mac 128K, in 1984, on my first OSX 10.1 G5... (haven't tried it lately). "Reverse" compatibility on the other hand is somewhat less; programs written for OSX certainly won't run on OS 9, and even some programs for OSX 10.4 won't run on OSX 10.3. Most of us are grateful that SETI even HAS a Mac version - some BOINC projects just don't bother, and are Windows-only or Windows-and-Linux. I don't think you can reasonably blame SETI for not supporting a Mac OS that is probably in use on a small percentage of Macs that are even capable of providing the power necessary to "crunch".

=====
Please excuse my typos on the reply above...

================
Well, almost nothing works and I lock up frequently...messages say computer overwhelmed or nearly so. I can open a window on a program but that is about all. Even setting BOINC to run from 2- 4am...
So, I have suspend BOINC and will try to install on my Windoz; I guess I too may just not participate until BOINC is changed and made possible for Mac users.

Dr. Bob

Robert L. Hanson, Ed.D.
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Message 186431 - Posted: 6 Nov 2005, 20:09:01 UTC - in response to Message 186386.  

[quote]No need to shout... A lot of work is currently being done to improve the installation and setup process for BOINC, to make it easier for new users to get it running. However, for many reasons, it is very unlikely that much if any effort will be spent getting all the projects to work under OSX 10.2 - there are a LOT of internal code changes in OSX between 10.2 and 10.3 and 10.4; creating optimized SETI clients for G4s for example requires a different compile just for 10.3 vs. 10.4. The number of people still using 10.2 is small enough that it is unlikely you'll see anyone spending the time. For whatever reason, the changes on the Windows side have been much smaller; many programs written for XP will still run even under Win95. The Mac has always had a great deal of "backwards compatibility" - I could run a solitaire game written for the ORIGINAL Mac 128K, in 1984, on my first OSX 10.1 G5... (haven't tried it lately). "Reverse" compatibility on the other hand is somewhat less; programs written for OSX certainly won't run on OS 9, and even some programs for OSX 10.4 won't run on OSX 10.3. Most of us are grateful that SETI even HAS a Mac version - some BOINC projects just don't bother, and are Windows-only or Windows-and-Linux. I don't think you can reasonably blame SETI for not supporting a Mac OS that is probably in use on a small percentage of Macs that are even capable of providing the power necessary to "crunch".

=====
Please excuse my typos on the reply above...

================
Well, almost nothing works and I lock up frequently...messages say computer overwhelmed or nearly so. I can open a window on a program but that is about all. Even setting BOINC to run from 2- 4am...
So, I have suspend BOINC and will try to install on my Windoz; I guess I too may just not participate until BOINC is changed and made possible for Mac users.

Dr. Bob

==========================
Ok, I am on the Windoz...what a nice interface, a wizard to help...mac easy. I have suspended the Mac machine but it still shows up as a machine being used for the same account as this one. Trouble is preferences for all machines are set by last change in preferences. May want Mac to do 2-4am and Windoz to do when I am on it...not sure how to do that. Will migrate to Windows thread and see if I can find answer.

If you can't go to the Mt. make it come to you!

Best,

Dr. Bob

Robert L. Hanson, Ed.D.
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Angelo Mileto (e)

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Message 191650 - Posted: 22 Nov 2005, 1:38:45 UTC

Well it seems there are way too many things that aren't very Mac friendly in this arena - the lack of screen saver; inability to customize preferences per machine; inability to run on 10.2.x; etc. Plus, all of the old statistics seem to be lost - Thanks SETI. Being an individual user and not some mega company or university, I was rather proud of the amount of work I was able to do - 13,056 units according to last count.

Now, after attempting to install every version of boink, I get nothing. Now all I have to do is figure out what I need to delete to get all that out of there. I guess if you guys do anything for the (I think you are wrong) large number of older OSX users, I'll get an e-mail.

Until then, I guess when I stop getting work units, I'll kill the screen saver too.
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Message 191791 - Posted: 22 Nov 2005, 6:43:22 UTC

Substantial efforts were made both by Berkeley and by other third parties including many Mac users to compile the code for 10.2.8. Unfortunately they all met with little or no success. It would require a modified code base just for 10.2.8, and it is not pratical to maintain a seperate code base just for one OS.

BOINC and all associate projects require 10.3.x or greater. It is sad, but true. This has been discussed many times.

In the end it isn't a BOINC or SETI argument, but a choice people must make. To stay behind or to move ahead, not just in one area, but all areas. I based my upgrade decisions not on BOINC or SETI, but on every other aspect of Mac use. The benefits were substantial. Being able to run BOINC projects is just an extra frill.


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Message 192293 - Posted: 23 Nov 2005, 4:40:05 UTC

I have been a member of Seti at Home since 1999...one of the first, I believe. I am also disappointed that my OSX 10.2.8 is going to be overlooked and I will no longer be able to run the Seti at Home program. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to go out and observe with my telescope. It was fun while it lasted....for over six years. cry cry sob sob.
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Message 192980 - Posted: 24 Nov 2005, 3:31:39 UTC - in response to Message 191791.  

I won't be able to move up to OSX for a while... but would like to somehow save my Seti stats/info/hours etc from OS 9 until then, so I can basically "start where I finished off". Does anyone know how to collect my seti stuff from the OS 9 classic version so I can archive it, and whether I can then start up again later when I go to OSX... like probably 1-2 years from now? - Cari, <webster@aon-celtic.com>
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Message 193035 - Posted: 24 Nov 2005, 4:35:50 UTC

Well all is not well in Mac-land it appears.

I only now was able to finally get my email address updated to one that actually exists after being involved since 1999. Had to dig up an old .sah file on my PM 7500.

So I decided to download the BOINC simple menu app. Nothing happens when I click "Start"!

I also disccovered that my old setiathome app, that was running fine with 311 units done (sure this is insignificant, but I don't leave my system running 24/7 connected to the Internet over my phone line). suddenly reset its count to ZERO!! My account info only registers 146 units also.

So much pride for my meagre contribution gone up in smoke now. Too bad.

I will download the full BOINC app and try to get this running again.

Later...
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Message 193041 - Posted: 24 Nov 2005, 4:40:51 UTC - in response to Message 193035.  
Last modified: 24 Nov 2005, 4:42:11 UTC

So I decided to download the BOINC simple menu app. Nothing happens when I click "Start"!


Did you attach to the SETI project? BOINC and SETI are two different things. BOINC is the framework - you have to then tell it what projects you wish to run within it. Looking at your account, you have no computers attached to SETI.

See the Wiki for an explanation of "everything BOINC".

I also disccovered that my old setiathome app, that was running fine with 311 units done (sure this is insignificant, but I don't leave my system running 24/7 connected to the Internet over my phone line). suddenly reset its count to ZERO!! My account info only registers 146 units also.


You will also see that those 146 were "as of March 15, 2005" - in other words, that info is not up to date. It will be brought up to date when Classic has closed in December.

Your Classic units are not "lost" - but SETI/BOINC is a separate project, with a different way of assigning credit. Here is my sig which shows both my SETI Classic units AND my SETI/BOINC credits.
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Message 193406 - Posted: 24 Nov 2005, 15:50:40 UTC - in response to Message 193041.  

I had some problems with the newest Stuffit app also, but ZipIt worked fine.

The full BOINC software appears to be running now. No bells and whistles though. like setiathome graphics.

Is it really this boring?

Thanks for the Wiki link!

I hope I will see the credit soon.

Thanks, Mike.


See the Wiki for an explanation of "everything BOINC".

I also disccovered that my old setiathome app, that was running fine with 311 units done (sure this is insignificant, but I don't leave my system running 24/7 connected to the Internet over my phone line). suddenly reset its count to ZERO!! My account info only registers 146 units also.


You will also see that those 146 were "as of March 15, 2005" - in other words, that info is not up to date. It will be brought up to date when Classic has closed in December.

Your Classic units are not "lost" - but SETI/BOINC is a separate project, with a different way of assigning credit. Here is my sig which shows both my SETI Classic units AND my SETI/BOINC credits.
[/quote]

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Message 193676 - Posted: 24 Nov 2005, 20:32:58 UTC - in response to Message 193406.  
Last modified: 24 Nov 2005, 20:34:59 UTC

The full BOINC software appears to be running now. No bells and whistles though. like setiathome graphics.


Did you do the "Full GUI" install? If so, you should be able to select the screensaver in System Preferences (there are other threads here on that). You should also be able to select the SETI WU that is "Running" in the Work tab, and hit "Show Graphics" to see it in a window. I personally much prefered the Classic screensaver version - but the Wiki even includes instructions on how to customize the BOINC one to look much like the Classic.

SETI and Einstein are the two projects that I know of with Mac BOINC screensavers - CPDN I think may have one. Rosetta's just came out on Windows, hopefully will be out for Mac soon. Predictor and SZTAKI have no screensavers on any platform. Can't speak for other projects.

As for boring... well, I'm not even running the screensavers any more, but I'm having all the fun I can stand watching my stats on the different projects I'm attached to, not to mention reading all the entertainment on these boards! :-)
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Message 211311 - Posted: 12 Dec 2005, 11:01:56 UTC

Like so many others, I'm working under a strict budget. I have no corporate backing or edu-lab resources. I can't afford to upgrade to Mac OS X, much less a whole new computer, which going above Mac OS X 10.2.8 requires.

So SETI@home joins the guard and supports only the financial elite. BOINC is an easy "solution", easy for BOINC's coders, but it ostracizes a measurable -- and vocal, from the posts here -- block of SETI@home's long-standing user base. This is some "thank you" for work done willingly, gladly, and leaves a very bad taste, one that may never wash away.

December 15 fast approaches. Why again is "classic" SETI@home being shut down? Are the work units gathered differently? What percentage of users had opted to keep churning out classic SETI@home units before the ultimatum was issued? Is "so long and thanks for all the fish" really the only option?
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Message 211318 - Posted: 12 Dec 2005, 11:14:52 UTC

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Message 264915 - Posted: 19 Mar 2006, 13:03:53 UTC - in response to Message 172344.  

Bruno:
Go find a friend who recently upgraded from 10.3 to 10.4 and ask for his/her old 10.3 OS install disks. You might luck out and get a free upgrade to 10.3.x - then start up Software Update and update to 10.3.9, and install BOINC!

C


I finally had to bite the bullet and upgrade to 10.3 as well. I found a fully licensed version on e-bay for $40.
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Questions and Answers : Macintosh : PLEASE DO SOMETHING TO MAKE SETI@HOME ENJOYABLE FOR MAC USERS


 
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