My wish: no more Boinc

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Message 169504 - Posted: 19 Sep 2005, 4:36:14 UTC - in response to Message 169499.  
Last modified: 19 Sep 2005, 4:40:55 UTC

i started to work up another long response, and then i realized we were degenerating into a lot of opinions instead of dealing with boinc versus classic seti@home. so i'll make just one more short comment.

you come across like a person who found a new religion in boinc and change. at various times, you've called anyone who disagreed with your religion undedicated, childish, selfish, and afraid of change. and then you had the gall to talk about insults and respect...

as in the real world, many different religions exist. no one knows who is right or wrong, and they all presumably get the job done. you're welcome to go chase your religion of boinc and change. i'll stay with my choice of classic seti@home for as long as it exists. if i ever hear of a non-boinc competitor for seti@home, i just might run their software and help them out, since it's becoming clear that seti@home does not want or appreciate my support.


Quite odd that you paraphrase my opinions as "finding religion". You couldn't be farther from the truth. I simply tire of seeing people bash BIONC and often not really giving it a chance.

Yes, I have the gall to talk about insults and respect, because my statements are generalized and not really aimed at anyone in particular. Yours have been aimed directly at me and full of assumptions. There's a difference.

I fully realize that there are different opinions out there. I don't know how many times I've said that it's each person's choice to stay or go. Your implication that I am unaware of alternate views seems yet another horrible assumption.

I merely spoke my opinion and you felt it was necessary to defend the view of leaving BOINC. Again, for the thousandth time, that's your choice. If you want to leave, then do so. It's not that the SETI community doesn't want you, rather you want SETI to adhere to your demands. We will be here if you (collectively) decide to come back again. I don't think anyone should have to buckle to the demands nor should they beg anyone in particular to stay.

You can speak and defend your views all you want, but it would have saved time just to realize it would be best to agree to disagree.

Oh, and one last thing: if you have misinterpreted my posts as "praise" and "worship" of change and BIONC, you have misunderstood me even more than I originally thought. I was merely stating the obvious as it stands now, and stating one's choice to stay or go. It's as simple as that. I once had a problem in Dominick's Food Stores and I vowed to never return. I didn't go on and on looking for attention by complaining just to see who was listening. I was also fired from Wal-Mart for having long hair, and I choose never to shop there ever again. I didn't even sue them for their blatant sexual discrimination (only males had to cut their hair after I had already worked there 5 months).

If you don't like something, just don't be involved with it. No need to make a spectacle of it. If it were true that enough people didn't like BOINC, they'd see that through user participation.
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Message 169505 - Posted: 19 Sep 2005, 4:39:31 UTC - in response to Message 169485.  

Lets try a different tack here.


yes, please. the old topic was way past stale.

SETI@Home classic is hopelessly broken and has to be replaced.

The back-end side was a horrible mess, even worse than the client side without add-ons. There were no controls on how many times a workunit was crunched. Some slipped through with 0 returns and others were run 30 times with the average being about 8.


*ouch* those are very real concerns. i knew they tried to obtain results about three times for each work unit. i knew they crunched interesting work units themselves so they could eliminate the possibility of some person playing games with them. i had absolutely no idea their server software had such problems.

Here is another shocker, the BOINC version has been producing more completed workunits than classic for over a year. This is mainly due to better server efficiency, on average it takes less than half as many copies to complete a workunit under BOINC than under classic.


you make an extremely convincing arguement for using the boinc work unit allocation/tracking on the server side. why were they never able to fix these problems under classic seti@home? did they decide to fix them only in boinc and leave the classic servers running the unfixed code?

from a software client perspective, i should think the server software should be of no concern as long as it adhered to the client-server communication specifications. if boinc server software could talk to classic seti@home client software, it could possibly make everybody happy.

In some ways I'm surprized that the admins have kept classic going this long with all the advantages BOINC offers.


i hate to admit it, but i fear i must agree with you. i guess i'm lucky they did not disenfranchise me months ago.
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Message 169507 - Posted: 19 Sep 2005, 4:50:09 UTC
Last modified: 19 Sep 2005, 5:06:05 UTC

Funny, I was trying to tell you the same exact thing (only in a different way), and you seemed to miss that. Just an observation, not intended as an insult.

I agree that the conversation was quite stale and I'd prefer just to agree to disagree. Of course, there's no reason to disagree anymore now that you seem to understand the problems with Classic.
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Message 169576 - Posted: 19 Sep 2005, 12:26:30 UTC - in response to Message 169476.  
Last modified: 19 Sep 2005, 12:33:18 UTC

points of fact (not opinion):
1. seti@home advertised it.


Actually, what Seti@Home said was the following; Add-on software for the SETI@home client: Use these at your own risk. They are not endorsed by SETI@home.

I wouldn't call that advertising. They linked to the add-ons, that's all.

Just as Seti through Boinc points to the add-ons for all Boinc related projects: Download BOINC add-on software... The first warning is again: These applications are not endorsed by SETI@home and you use them at your own risk.
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Message 169609 - Posted: 19 Sep 2005, 14:06:49 UTC - in response to Message 169576.  
Last modified: 19 Sep 2005, 14:10:52 UTC

points of fact (not opinion):
1. seti@home advertised it.


Actually, what Seti@Home said was the following; Add-on software for the SETI@home client: Use these at your own risk. They are not endorsed by SETI@home.

I wouldn't call that advertising. They linked to the add-ons, that's all.


i went and rechecked both my shell script and the url you cited.

the shell script says this:

# This script came from:
# http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley/FetchCache
# Used in concert with the script:
# http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley/RunCache
#
# Tue Oct 5 16:14:43 PDT 1999 - Hiram

and the url says this:

<li>RunCache and FetchCache - perl scripts tha
t run clients on cached workunits, can use multiple CPUs, and returns results an
d fetches new work units.

based upon these observations, i would say that not only did seti@home advertise these add-ons, it looks very much like they wrote them and maintained them. i also noted that the original shell script appears to have been converted to a perl program at some point in time after i obtained my version of it.
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Message 173916 - Posted: 3 Oct 2005, 17:13:51 UTC

My Wish - Fix Seti@home Classic backend. I have deployed hundreds of computers with Seti@home Classic and they continue to run. There is no way to change them to BOINC. Classic is such a nice small program and makes an excellent screen saver.
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Message 173967 - Posted: 3 Oct 2005, 20:20:48 UTC - in response to Message 173916.  

My Wish - Fix Seti@home Classic backend. I have deployed hundreds of computers with Seti@home Classic and they continue to run. There is no way to change them to BOINC. Classic is such a nice small program and makes an excellent screen saver.


I'm wishing for a winning lottery ticket. Since I don't actually buy tickets, I suppose it isn't going to happen.
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Message 183509 - Posted: 29 Oct 2005, 9:16:40 UTC
Last modified: 29 Oct 2005, 9:23:23 UTC

I downloaded BOINC yesterday and plan on uninstalling it today, goodbye.

PS How do I delete my account?
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Message 183637 - Posted: 29 Oct 2005, 16:03:22 UTC - in response to Message 183509.  

I downloaded BOINC yesterday and plan on uninstalling it today, goodbye.

PS How do I delete my account?


I've already answered you in your other thread. I will ask the same here: Why do you want to uninstall it? What problems did you have with the software? What is it about the software that you dislike?

Keeping an open mind on new things will help. If you've already made up your mind, then perhaps you'll come back when you feel you'd like to contribute again.
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Message 205267 - Posted: 7 Dec 2005, 2:05:26 UTC - in response to Message 183637.  

PS How do I delete my account?


i am happy with my classic seti@home account, but it will probably die in a few days when they kill all of the remaining classic seti@home clients. however, the version of my account created when i migrated from the classic website to the new website will probably remain intact but permanently idle.

so i will repeat the gentleman's question: how do i delete my seti account?
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Message 205270 - Posted: 7 Dec 2005, 2:09:00 UTC - in response to Message 205267.  
Last modified: 7 Dec 2005, 2:10:21 UTC

so i will repeat the gentleman's question: how do i delete my seti account?

You don't. You can't. No one can. (well, bar a catastrophic fire in the Seti lab, accompanied by a 9.1 Richter scale earthquake that will level everything. But that's a wish too far, I think :))
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Message 207136 - Posted: 8 Dec 2005, 21:02:22 UTC

I also am finished with boinc. I was a seti-user for almost 7 years and did more work units than 98.976 of all users and ranked 56,458 out of over 5 million

i hate this new boinc bullshit. i could
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Message 207564 - Posted: 9 Dec 2005, 3:49:32 UTC - in response to Message 207136.  

I also am finished with boinc. I was a seti-user for almost 7 years and did more work units than 98.976 of all users and ranked 56,458 out of over 5 million

i hate this new boinc bullshit. i could


Thank you for your time. Come back if you decide that you want to be a part of the science again. If not, good luck in your future.
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Message 212177 - Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 0:50:38 UTC

I agree. BOINC STOINC. IT SUCKS. Unintalled from my machines today. No matter what I do it either says it's idle or can't communicate. It's too much work. Bu bye now.
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Message 212184 - Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 0:55:20 UTC

I like (NOT) how OZZFAN1 tells another user to "come back when you want to be a part of the science again". What a stupid thing to say. That guy did want to be part of the science, but wasn't allowed to be because of this shitty software.

I'd really like to know how to contact whomever is writing this crap and let them know how bad their software sucks. People are leaving SETI in droves because of this BOINC shit.
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Message 212219 - Posted: 13 Dec 2005, 1:13:10 UTC
Last modified: 13 Dec 2005, 1:28:23 UTC

BOINC works fine. SETI is having some issues at the moment. Do not confuse the two. I am joined with several projects, all my machines are busy crunching just fine. Once SETI gets things straightened out (and a lot of it looks like it's starting to work better as of a few hours ago). So, if you have a little patience, you will be able to crunch SETI soon.

It's suggested that you work with other projects, because SETI will not always be available (as in the last few days it's been in a mostly down mode).

I hope you relook at the software. Think about other projects. Give your time to very deserving sciences.

Also, please read "Why the change" message written by Matt L., developer of SETI Classic and SETI BOINC.



My movie https://vimeo.com/manage/videos/502242
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Message 213494 - Posted: 14 Dec 2005, 0:53:44 UTC - in response to Message 212184.  

I like (NOT) how OZZFAN1 tells another user to "come back when you want to be a part of the science again". What a stupid thing to say. That guy did want to be part of the science, but wasn't allowed to be because of this shitty software.

I'd really like to know how to contact whomever is writing this crap and let them know how bad their software sucks. People are leaving SETI in droves because of this BOINC shit.


The software seems to work just fine for 300,000 users (and growing). If one has problems, one only needs to ask for help here. If one does not, what else would you like us to say? Classic will not be coming back. BOINC is evolving, so if it's shitty, make suggestions to improve it. If you cannot, then you're not helping, only whining.

Can you really prove, statistically, that people are leaving in droves? Can you provide some factual numbers? From my perspective, it's only a group of people that can't be bothered to read on technical news and/or FAQs. (i.e. Where's my credit? I'm leaving! - Why can I not connect to the servers? I am leaving! Answer: check the server status and technical news page, most of the time all the information you need is in there.).

According to BOINC Stats (link provided on main page), over 600,000 hosts are successfully running BOINC without issue. Where some leave, others will join.

Now, instead of complaining about the software, why not post your problem and let us help you? If you want to make the software better, then why not make suggestions to improve BOINC - not just telling them "IT SUCKS!" - that's not helpful at all. You cannot go up to an architect of a building and tell them that their design "sucks". Either provide detailed information or expect to be blown off. Once the building is done, unless you are providing the monetary finances, you cannot expect them to wreck it and build a new one just because a few people dislike it.

BOINC works (with the exception of the recent server problems). What is difficult to use can be reprogrammed to be easier with time and good suggestions. Where's yours?
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Message 217253 - Posted: 18 Dec 2005, 12:10:19 UTC - in response to Message 213494.  

no, it is NOT a test of my dedication. my dedication to seti@home remains unchanged. however, seti@home chose to expand their configuration to support other organizations that i do NOT support. as an analogy, those other organizations poisoned the well, and you suggest i should have a glass of water.

i cannot and do not comment on the qualities of boinc itself. i object to putting different organizations with different goals under one umbrella and then calling everything seti@home.


erm, boinc only does the projects you attach to. if you dont want to monitor near earth objects or search for medical answers, you can join only seti.

ya'll are way more patient than i thanks for trying not to say the same thing over and over to the same whines.




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Message 217277 - Posted: 18 Dec 2005, 13:23:23 UTC - in response to Message 169299.  
Last modified: 18 Dec 2005, 13:31:18 UTC

you cannot take the classic seti@home implementation, expand it to contain other organizations, and then claim that your expanded implementation is the one, true, and only future of distributed computing. you can claim it is the probable future of seti@home.
...
a difference exists between giving the distributed computing mechanism to the scientific communitity and mandating that your service-providers join a system that may farm their computing time to groups with which they disagree.
...
no, it is NOT a test of my dedication. my dedication to seti@home remains unchanged. however, seti@home chose to expand their configuration to support other organizations that i do NOT support.


They (seti guy) do not expand seti to contain anything.
They help to develop the BOINC, a container for distributed computing.
When it was ready, THEY decided to switch the seti classic to the new container BOINC.
Now THEY decided to switch off the classic seti.
If you do not like this choose, leave it, we dont want you.
You are free to join some other project, or write your own, the code is free, better is opensource.
Try to attract some other users if you can.
For me and a lot of user, the BOINC is the best distributed computer container.
For me every distributed computer project should switch to BOINC.

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