It may be time to extend report deadlines.
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Number crunching :
It may be time to extend report deadlines.
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 Graeme of Boinc UK Send message Joined: 25 Nov 02 Posts: 114 Credit: 1,250,273 RAC: 0 
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Dear Matt & Co, Given that the problems at your end do not seem to be getting any better, (have you checked the fuel sensor) then it may be worth extending the report deadlines if it is not too difficult to do this that is. I will not lose any completed work until the 22nd but I am certain that fellow co-opted scientists (crunchers) are now losing out on credit. Science to one side, the competitive edge of this project is what makes it function for a lot of us and upon that basis encourages some of us to run multiple computers 24/7. Thereby on the basis of work done = reward, may I kindly ask of you gentlemen to consider this request. Kind regards. Graeme Murphy. www.setiuk.com  
ID: 137418 ·  |
Fuzzy Hollynoodles  Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 9659 Credit: 251,998 RAC: 0 |
If you keep your cache down to 1 or 2 days, this shouldn't be necessary. I have a cache on 1 day, and I have never been near any deadline date! "I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me 
ID: 137442 · |
Pascal, K G  Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 2343 Credit: 150,491 RAC: 0 
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Same here, keep low connect to. Semper Eadem So long Paul, it has been a hell of a ride. Park your ego's, fire up the computers, Science YES, Credits No. ID: 137448 · |
DecBassI  Send message Joined: 21 May 05 Posts: 152 Credit: 86,905 RAC: 0
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I agree, fuzzy, 1 day seems to work well for me. (although things could go a bit pear-shaped if this upload/download problem persists) Completely off-topic, i have owned several cats (or they have owned me really), and Tabby-cats always seem to be a lot more intelligent than the others, certainly the two i've had were. ID: 137453 · |
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Heffed Send message Joined: 19 Mar 02 Posts: 1856 Credit: 40,736 RAC: 0
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I believe he's talking about missed deadlines due to the recent outage. As far as I'm aware, an outage has never caused credit problems. ID: 137454 · |
Jord  Send message Joined: 9 Jun 99 Posts: 15184 Credit: 4,362,181 RAC: 3 
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No, he wants all of the units that are still on his computer to magically have their deadline in them reprogrammed to 2 weeks away from now. So Graeme, how do you want this done? All of the units on your computer have a programmed date of when they were created, so they know when they deadline. How is a server change, that will affect millions of units and thus slowdown everything further, affect that? ID: 137458 · |
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DecBassI Send message Joined: 21 May 05 Posts: 152 Credit: 86,905 RAC: 0
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I believe he's talking about missed deadlines due to the recent outage. No, an outage shouldn't cause credit problems (work gets uploaded eventually), but if this upload problem persists, surely deadlines might be missed? ID: 137459 · |
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Jim Baize Send message Joined: 6 May 00 Posts: 758 Credit: 149,536 RAC: 0
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Cache of 0.5 days. Even on my laptop that isn't always connected to the network I've never had any problems. Although, on my laptop, I may occasionally run out WU for one particular project while offline, there is always enough work from the other projects to cover me. Jim If you keep your cache down to 1 or 2 days, this shouldn't be necessary. I have a cache on 1 day, and I have never been near any deadline date! ID: 137460 · |
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Fuzzy Hollynoodles Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 9659 Credit: 251,998 RAC: 0 |
I agree, fuzzy, 1 day seems to work well for me. (although things could go a bit pear-shaped if this upload/download problem persists) Yes, that was a "problem", but again, I was never near the deadline date, as they "sucked up" the WU's a little, one by one, and I don't have any waiting now! I only had a couple waiting, while it lasted! And in an outage I crunch other projects! So I don't see the problem at all! And OT, I have only had housecats, two from the same litter, a tabby and a blue, and now this little beauty! And I will never have any pedigree cat, only housecats! They are the smartest! This little princess is the smartest, but she had lived as a homeless cat before I got her, and as a homeless cat only the smartest survive!!! Darwin's theory in practice! "I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me
ID: 137462 · |
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SoNic Send message Joined: 24 Dec 00 Posts: 140 Credit: 2,963,627 RAC: 0 
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Are you nuts? How can a low cache help the problem? In the last 5 days I wasn't able to upload results at the speed that my machines produce results. If I have only 1 unit in cache, is gonna do something about the problem they have with the servers? It still will create results (regardless of how many I have in may cache) that are not beeing uploaded and will be in the same place. ID: 137467 · |
Astro  Send message Joined: 16 Apr 02 Posts: 8026 Credit: 600,015 RAC: 0 |
Let's see...Hmm..the first day of this outage was Monday when they pulled the breaker,,,,right? If you are using the newer recommended clients and requested a 10 day cache that netted you between 3 to 4 days of actual work. So, if you signed online 3-4 days prior to Monday and downloaded all your current work units and didn't sign on again until after Monday then your nearest deadline would be next Thursday. That's the earliest deadline possible with the new scheduler. If Wednesday/Thurday is the deadline it's WAY to early to work about the deadline. Way to early to be continually pressing the "update" or "retry now" button. Doing this only exacerbates the problem of the load on the upload/download server. However, the number of readers of this board is a very small percentage and I doubt that if everyone who reads these forums were to "Disable network Usage" that it would significantly reduce the load on the servers. If, However, you are using an OLD version of the client and requested a 10 day cache, you probably got an 7 or 8 day cache, and IF you signed on the Monday prior to the outage(and didn't reconnect prior to the outage), then you are indeed reaching the deadline and I feel sorry for your choice of client usage. If you are still using a client prior to 4.19 then you are now experiencing Download Error after Download Error and these errors by themselves aren't harmful but when it happens to many times on an issued result then the WU errors out "to many errors" and even the crunchers who successfully completed the WU will get hosed on their credit. If you have a CC prior to 4.19, would you please be kind to the rest of us and upgrade NOW. I'm done. Thanks for your time tony ID: 137470 · |
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SoNic Send message Joined: 24 Dec 00 Posts: 140 Credit: 2,963,627 RAC: 0
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I have 4.45 version with optimized client. I asked for a 10 day cache and because of the low benchmark I got usually work for 4 days. I am online permanent, but still my machines produce more results than are accepted. Even a PIII@933MHz that is on just a few hours a day, has 5 waiting now... I am really upset with all this. I don't like the other projects and I rather stop the machines to save electricity. I just was really interested in the ideea behind SETI and I am upset to see it like this. ID: 137475 · |
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Graeme of Boinc UK Send message Joined: 25 Nov 02 Posts: 114 Credit: 1,250,273 RAC: 0
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Using 4.35, 5.0 days cache & off on my holidays this coming Friday. My computers will not be left running during these two weeks this year. It is a question of managing project problems. (magically) To leave things as they are until Wednesday would be mismanaging the project. (not so magic) This said in few words without "putting anyone down" and respecting all opinions. (magic) Magically and respectfully yours, Graeme Murphy. www.setiuk.com
ID: 137477 · |
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Jord Send message Joined: 9 Jun 99 Posts: 15184 Credit: 4,362,181 RAC: 3
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I'd even want to wager to ask people to update to 4.45 in Windows. Please. And when you have done that, undergo the start of the new work scheduler and the Debt procedure. So you are prepared to strange messages and not least expect them! ID: 137479 · |
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Astro Send message Joined: 16 Apr 02 Posts: 8026 Credit: 600,015 RAC: 0 |
I have 4.45 version with optimized client. I asked for a 10 day cache and because of the low benchmark I got usually work for 4 days. I am online permanent, but still my machines produce more results than are accepted. Even a PIII@933MHz that is on just a few hours a day, has 5 waiting now... Do you have any Results with a date closer than Wednesday? If not, then what does it hurt to have a large queue of results ready to return when it is working again? Why does this bother you so? When they do report you will see a large spike in your RAC, which will soon be followed by a drop in your RAC back to normal. Unless you are forced to report your WUs late then you WILL get ALL your credits. please be patient. tony ID: 137480 · |
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Jord Send message Joined: 9 Jun 99 Posts: 15184 Credit: 4,362,181 RAC: 3
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I am really upset with all this. I don't like the other projects and I rather stop the machines to save electricity. I just was really interested in the ideea behind SETI and I am upset to see it like this. So do the right thing and shut all your machines down. Now. Please! If your heart isn't in it, then why do it? No one around here is forcing you to run it, so if you only like it out of all of the projects around, then please just quit. Uninstall the clients and shut down your computers or use them as a server ring for gaming or something you do have a heart in! Just don't complain around here about Classic or any hardware misused if you don't know what exactly you are taking part in, please. ID: 137483 · |
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Astro Send message Joined: 16 Apr 02 Posts: 8026 Credit: 600,015 RAC: 0 |
Using 4.35, 5.0 days cache & off on my holidays this coming Friday. 4.35?? wasn't that full of bugs? It might help on some issues to upgrade. Sorry to be OFF topic. tony [edit]I know 4.35 was a hurriedly prepared and released Client and the FIRST to contain the new scheduler. ID: 137484 · |
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Fuzzy Hollynoodles Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 9659 Credit: 251,998 RAC: 0 |
 from me! :-D"I'm trying to maintain a shred of dignity in this world." - Me
ID: 137492 · |
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Jim Baize Send message Joined: 6 May 00 Posts: 758 Credit: 149,536 RAC: 0
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Are you nuts? How can a low cache help the problem? In the last 5 days I wasn't able to upload results at the speed that my machines produce results. If I have only 1 unit in cache, is gonna do something about the problem they have with the servers? It still will create results (regardless of how many I have in may cache) that are not beeing uploaded and will be in the same place. Actually, they won't be in the same place in the same time scale. Yes, they will still be in your upload que, but they won't have burned up most of the 14 days window waiting to be crunched. Here is a comparison between a large cache and a small cache I may have to make some assumptions that will remain constant throughout both cases. Large Cache case. Download a large number of WU's at one time. This set of WU's will have a 2 week window. The first WU will have 2 weeks in which to compute and upload. The last WU of this set will have used up part of this 14 day window just sitting in the que waiting to be crunched. So, now lets assume that it took 13 days to work through all but one of those WU's. These WU's get uploaded no problems, however, this last WU is comepleted just after a server crash. Now, this last WU has only 1 day in which to upload to the server. Small Cache Case Download small number of WU's (ie 1 or two). Now, one of the two WU's will start crunching. It has 14 days in which to crunch and upload. Same situation, just before this first WU is done, there is a server crash. Now, this WU will have a window of 14 days - crunch time to upload. Even if the computer gets new work, (one WU at a time) that first WU will have nearly the full 14 day window to wait until the server gets back online. I hope this helps. Any questions? Jim ID: 137495 · |
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SoNic Send message Joined: 24 Dec 00 Posts: 140 Credit: 2,963,627 RAC: 0
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I am really upset with all this. I don't like the other projects and I rather stop the machines to save electricity. I just was really interested in the ideea behind SETI and I am upset to see it like this. I said that I WAS INTERESTED in SETI and not in other projects. What's wrong with that? It's a king of exclusive club - "If you don't crunch for Pirates@home (or what anything else you like), you're not welcome to crunch SETI anymore!"??? My heart is with SETI, I cannot say same about you, if you act this way. I don't "complain" I try to talk about solutions to a problem. Ignoring it is not gonna help the project. And I don't think you are helping by tying to shut people down when they report problems or trying to find logical solutions. ID: 137498 · |
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