http://pirates.vassar.edu/forum_thread.php?id=426

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[font='courier,courier new']Never got a single WU from Pirates... phooey.[/font]

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Boohoo... it was a really nice experience over there... :(
Sad day, that it's been over... had a nice time there...
[edit] Not much credit, but loads of fun :DDDD [/edit]
[edit2] Still got 4 sextant 4.91 wu's on my rig. Should i sell them on ebay or anyone? ;) [/edit2]

Aaaaaaarrrrrrrgh!!!!

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Aloha, Uli

I spent about 2 or 3 months trying to get WUs out of them and none ever came. I dropped them. May it RIP.... >:-)

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CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\//
Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker
"Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath

[font='courier,courier new']I can't stop Pirates from shutting down, but I might have something to fill the void.[/font]

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[font='courier,courier new']I can't stop Pirates from shutting down, but I might have something to fill the void.[/font]

Love?

[font='courier,courier new']Love may be "all you need", but no.[/font]

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Well that was a rather more abrupt ending than was expected :-(

[Edit]May the pirates tradition live long in the Pirates@Home team with the Einstein@Home project.[/Edit]

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Kolch - Crunching for the BOINC@Australia team since July 2004.
Search for your own intelligence...

[font='courier,courier new']@ Mods & Admin Only - Any problem if I propose a BOINC-enabled project in the SETI fora?[/font]

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[font='courier,courier new']Again, Mods & Admins Only

I hate to do back-to-back posting, but I missed the window for editing.

I ask because the goal of the project doesn't contribute to the advancement of the sciences the way that seeking extraterrestrial intelligences, detecting gravity wells, calculating asteroid orbits, protein folding, or supercolliding superconductor simulation do. It would only contribute to mathematics - Specifically game theory.

There's also the issue of workunits - I've concluded that the greatest upper bound possible of the number of workunits is 196E+69, but I have not yet figured a way of calculating how many WUs would actually be needed/sent... I'm still trying to figure that (and a record-keeping system) out.[/font]

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@NA
Not that I am either a Mod or an Admin but I shouldn't think that there would be any problem. Besides its not like the BURP project has any great scientific aim.

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Kolch - Crunching for the BOINC@Australia team since July 2004.
Search for your own intelligence...

[font='courier,courier new'].o0(!)

When you're right, kolch, you're right. Wish I had thought of that.

I'll post the proposal when I wake up. G'night, folks.[/font]

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@NA
Not that I am either a Mod or an Admin but I shouldn't think that there would be any problem. Besides its not like the BURP project has any great scientific aim.

While it might not actually be looking for, or proving anything, 3D graphics actually have quite a bit of science involved. Reflection, refraction, lighting ambiance and shadows and their effect on various colors and textures, even atmospheric conditions. (haze, fog, clouds, and other volumetric or particle effects)

So if it makes you feel any better, you can look at it like you're machine is busy doing heavy scientific calculations. ;)

Mathematics is the foundation of all Science. So a large math problem should fit in with no problem.

P.S. You do not apparently need permission to set up a BOINC project. You will however, need some hardware. The source is freely available, and I believe that there is a mailing list for those setting up projects. 10**69 WUs at one per second, that would be more than the current estimated life of the universe from the beginning to now.

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BOINC WIKI

[font='courier,courier new']Go make some coffee - You'll need it.

Back in 11687:80520 I said that chess could be a good DC candidate project, and it wasn't until a few days ago that I began to piece together how it could be done. Now I think I've got a better handle on it, so let me raise the flag [I think the Jolly Roger would be appropriate] and let's see who salutes it.

Deep Blue Jeans would be a chess board position and move analysis program in which all possible board arrangements are evaluated. The output would contain the validity of the board, the next n moves for both sides, a linked list that can be traversed to determine if a particular setup does in fact occurr in a standard game, and to identify the board setup uniquely. This information could later be used to set up book moves or drive Kasparov up a wall (again), but aside from the output I mentioned earlier, there isn't much else that it can "give back" to the user.

Setting up the board was rather simple (once I "discovered" how to make variables globally accessible), and it boils down to a single recursive function...

void populate_board(unsigned byte chess_board_position){
     byte chess_piece;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;for(chess_piece=0;chess_piece<13;chess_piece++){
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;chess_board&#x5b;chess_board_position]=piece;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;chess_piece&#x5b;chess_piece]++;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;if(validation()){
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;if(chess_board_position<63){
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;populate_board(chess_board_position+1);
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;} else {
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;print_board();
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;valid_chess_board_positions++;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;} // end if
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;} // end if
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;chess_piece&#x5b;piece]--;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;} // next
} // end populate_board

Validating the setup was also rather easy (it's 166 lines, so I'm not posting it), but I'm sure there's some condition that I'm not aware of that might need to be added. Identifying a board is also straightforward (albeit untintelligible once IDed). A board setup like...

+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|WQ|BN|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|BK|
+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
|BP|&nbsp;&nbsp;|BP|&nbsp;&nbsp;|WN|BP|BP|BP|
+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|
+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|WB|&nbsp;&nbsp;|
+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|BP|&nbsp;&nbsp;|BB|&nbsp;&nbsp;|
+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|
+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
|WP|WP|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|WP|WP|WK|
+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
|WR|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|WR|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|
+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+

...could be represented as 0x0005900C707037770000000000000040000070A0000000001100011620000200 - A sort of serial number or key. This means that a WU would be very small (much to the approval of our 14.4kb/s users). Moreover, because the source code for generating and validating a board setup is very small, the user's host would only need the first seven rows, and could sort out the last row for itself (the underlined section is what would be sent as a WU).

Each possible subsequent move would be carried out on the user's host for both black and white. Using the previous example, the returned data would contain respective the keys for moves such as WQe8, WNg6, WKg1, BPf6, BNd6, and BKg7, regardless of the fact that some moves are obvious (&#x2655;e8#), favourable (&#x2658;g6+), neutral (&#x2654;g1), bad (&#x265f;f6), stupid (&#x265e;d6?), and outright incompetent(&#x265a;g7&#x2047;).

So far, so good. Here's what I haven't figured out.

The crude assessment of the number of board positions is 13^64 (which is where I got the 196E+69 from), but must be far lower because I didn't take validity into account. There's a Wiki entry for Go (board game) which states in passing that...

...the number of legal positions in chess is estimated to be between 10^43 and 10^50; and physicists estimate that there are not more than 10^90 protons in the entire visible universe.

That still means that keeping track of the boards themselves would need more storage space than I think even Google has. I'm going to take a wild guess that every piece on the board can move once and only once, so there could be as many as 32 keys being returned from one input key, resulting in 1KB of storage per inputted key, which in turn calls for more storage than I think has ever been manufactured.

Somehow I doubt that I'll be around for when Moore's Law gets technology to that point. But assimung that storage space is not an issue, the linked-list of moves becomes problem number two. I'm self-taught in C, and linked lists are one of those things that I know about and can comprehend, but can't pull off for the life of me. I know that there'll be a problem with trying to associate board positions to one another since one board's key could lead to many other boards (32? 64? 4096? More?), so traversing the tree back becomes very tricky. The way I was thinking of skirting the issue was to create hyperlinks in HTML, and fill up the page with the links. This has the added benefit of being able to posts statistics on the individual board positions, such as who crucnhed what, how long it took, if a board has been seen in gameplay, etc.. The index page would contain something like this...

89ABCA9877777777000000000000000000000000000000001111111123456432
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+&nbsp;
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|BR|BN|BB|BQ|BK|BB|BN|BR|
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|BP|BP|BP|BP|BP|BP|BP|BP|
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|&nbsp;&nbsp;|
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|WP|WP|WP|WP|WP|WP|WP|WP|
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;|WR|WN|WB|WQ|WK|WB|WN|WR|
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+
White&nbsp;to&nbsp;move:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Black&nbsp;to&nbsp;move:
a2a3&nbsp;->&nbsp;link&nbsp;to&nbsp;board&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;a7a6&nbsp;->&nbsp;link&nbsp;to&nbsp;board
a2a4&nbsp;->&nbsp;link&nbsp;to&nbsp;board&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;a7a5&nbsp;->&nbsp;link&nbsp;to&nbsp;board
b2b3&nbsp;->&nbsp;link&nbsp;to&nbsp;board&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;b7b6&nbsp;->&nbsp;link&nbsp;to&nbsp;board
:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;:
V&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;V

...with the workunit information (who, when, how long, credits) following.

Inelegant, and lacking the "previous moves leading to this board" link(s), but it's functional.

This leaves the last problem: Credits. Ideally each subsequent move would be scored and listed, and credit would be granted based on the number of nodes searched and the amount of time needed. However, since I've not yet developed the project that far (which really depends on when yottabyte hard disks that come onto the market), accreditation would be based on how many moves were found - Not what those moves are worth in the game. I'll be sifting through gnuchess's code soon. I think it would be more informative if a user's credits are "x mates, y checks, z resignations", instead of a number, but it doesn't seem to be possible just yet.

So... that's about all I've got for now. Obviously a 2D/3D board would make a decent screensaver, and I know that there's code out there that'll do it. If there's anything I've missed (or dwelled upon a little too long), please feel free to pour yourself a mug of that coffee and comment.[/font]

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Wow, from what I can figure that is a massive undertaking.

Though it seems that you have a fair grasp of the requirements.

Keep at it and let us know if you get to a point of testing smaller parts of the project. It might be easier to try it that way than to attempt the whole thing at once.

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Kolch - Crunching for the BOINC@Australia team since July 2004.
Search for your own intelligence...

[font='courier,courier new']As much as I'd like to say "Here's your new Pirates, lads - An' it be on a platter o'-silver, arr!", I obviously can't do it all at once.

I'm gong to take advantage of my empty cache and run the board-generator... see how many valids I get.

And while I'm at it, anyone know of a helper app for writing man pages?[/font]

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[font='courier,courier new']As much as I'd like to say "Here's your new Pirates, lads - An' it be on a platter o'-silver, arr!", I obviously can't do it all at once.

I'm gong to take advantage of my empty cache and run the board-generator... see how many valids I get.

And while I'm at it, anyone know of a helper app for writing man pages?[/font]

I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that info (not man) are written in TEX format.
Hope that helps...

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[font='courier,courier new']If you're right, then info it is!

.o0(TeX is a bit of a speciality of mine.)[/font]

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[font='courier,courier new']If you're right, then info it is!

.o0(TeX is a bit of a speciality of mine.)[/font]

I hope I'm right... good luck with your project!

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