Political Thread [7] - CLOSED


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Paul Zimmerman
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Message 99174 - Posted: 15 Apr 2005, 15:42:37 UTC - in response to Message 99039.


> I thought it was understood, that the other thread of the same name should
> have been called the "I hate Bush/Republicans" thread.

A spurious attempt to characterize motive can only be construed to be an attempt to deflect from, and draw attention away from the content itself.

Characterize the messenger any way you may see fit.....

Bush and the Republicans are trying to dismantle Social Security and privatize all retirement programs.

The whole thing has played out and it's obvious that deception was employed to 'sway' public opinion to support an effort to dismantle the safeguards of Social Security.

That effort should not 'endear' anyone towards Bush or those members of Congress who participated in such deceit.

I've stated before and I'll repeat it again.... I don't hate Bush, but I do think he should be prosecuted for his crimes.
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Message 99176 - Posted: 15 Apr 2005, 15:46:26 UTC - in response to Message 99140.

> My 2¢ say that if I'm gonna be working at 70, I should be doing so for
> pleasure, not a paycheck. Hopefully the nest egg I'd have been working on
> would hatch by then.
>

not at a savings of 58 cents a year!
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Message 99191 - Posted: 15 Apr 2005, 16:16:08 UTC - in response to Message 99174.

>
> > I thought it was understood, that the other thread of the same name
> should
> > have been called the "I hate Bush/Republicans" thread.
>
> A spurious attempt to characterize motive can only be construed to be an
> attempt to deflect from, and draw attention away from the content itself.
>
> Characterize the messenger any way you may see fit.....
>
> Bush and the Republicans are trying to dismantle Social Security and privatize
> all retirement programs.
>
> The whole thing has played out and it's obvious that deception was employed to
> 'sway' public opinion to support an effort to dismantle the safeguards of
> Social Security.
>
> That effort should not 'endear' anyone towards Bush or those members of
> Congress who participated in such deceit.

I don't think we need to revisit a dead issue.....
Paul, sometimes you can be a Little paranoid...






>
> I've stated before and I'll repeat it again.... I don't hate Bush, but I do
> think he should be prosecuted for his crimes.
>
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Message 99205 - Posted: 15 Apr 2005, 16:41:27 UTC - in response to Message 99191.

> Congress who participated in such deceit.
>
> I don't think we need to revisit a dead issue.....
> Paul, sometimes you can be a Little paranoid...



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Message 99206 - Posted: 15 Apr 2005, 16:45:35 UTC - in response to Message 99176.

>>My 2¢ say that if I'm gonna be working at 70, I should be doing so for pleasure, not a paycheck. Hopefully the nest egg I'd have been working on would hatch by then.
>not at a savings of 58 cents a year!
Obviously more than that is gonna be needed.
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Message 99218 - Posted: 15 Apr 2005, 17:04:01 UTC

The Bamboozala-lapaloozala tour lives on and efforts to dismantle Social Security are proceeding still....

Dead the issue is not.
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Message 99231 - Posted: 15 Apr 2005, 17:26:02 UTC
Last modified: 15 Apr 2005, 17:31:42 UTC



Undead Small Business Administration funding for the tours?

here Loyalty oath for attendance?

here "60 Stops in 60 Days" tour, during which administration officials and policy experts will promote President Bush's proposal

here The House takes up the gauntlet....

here Perspective.......
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Message 99239 - Posted: 15 Apr 2005, 17:40:52 UTC - in response to Message 99231.

Barkeep! Barkeep! [pounding] VODKA!! FULL LITER!! NOW!!!

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Message 99243 - Posted: 15 Apr 2005, 17:44:20 UTC - in response to Message 99231.
Last modified: 15 Apr 2005, 17:44:36 UTC

>

AInt gonna happen Paul....
Besides Investing in your own private account should be done anyway..

Just look at NA he will be rich someday....Maybe.....


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Message 99260 - Posted: 15 Apr 2005, 18:06:21 UTC - in response to Message 99243.

Your confidence in my abilities is duly noted and will be held against you when I think of something...
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Message 99261 - Posted: 15 Apr 2005, 18:07:00 UTC

The ability to 'voluntariliy' invest in true private accounts is available to everyone now and that should be something we all do.

Raising taxes, cutting benefits, jeapordizing guaranteed protections of Social Security to force people into the kind of faux 'private' account investing currently proposed is not and will not be beneficial to anyone but the investment industry.

This whole charade was rolled out as a plan to 'save' Social Security from a crisis and it's been demonstrably proven that was nothing more than a ruse. It's been admitted by Bush himself that privatization would make solvency of Social Security worse.

Make no mistake.... the whole effort is an attempt to dismantle Social Security....

Some folks didn't like it when it was conceived and some actively hope to tear it down still.


----------------------------------------------------------------
GOP platform of the Texas Republicans....


p.13  " ... gradually phase out Social Security tax for a system of "private pensions.."




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Message 99274 - Posted: 15 Apr 2005, 18:43:26 UTC


Transparent efforts at denying any transparency in the press, again.

Must be that 'liberal' conspiracy at work......... ?
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Message 99332 - Posted: 15 Apr 2005, 21:49:41 UTC - in response to Message 99074.

> If a 75year old trucker has to work still, there is imho something
> badly wrong in that country.

I agree, and I am very worried about the motor vehicle crash rates where you have 75-year-olds driving large trucks.... there is just no way of getting around the fact that older people have:
- slower reflexes;
- poorer eyesight (not all of which can be corrected);
- are hurt worse in slight accidents;
- are the second largest group for causing fatal/serious injury crashes (after the young, particularly males); and
- don't tend to get enough sleep (as in, as much as they need).

Huge experience in driving does not totally offset the aging factors.

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Message 99335 - Posted: 15 Apr 2005, 22:06:54 UTC - in response to Message 99046.

> Now Now There M Don't start knocking the USA;s Retiree welfare program....

It's not an attack on the US, it is a general attack on all nations who do not provide adequate old-age social security.
>
> My Dad is 76 and still put's in at least 30hrs a week!
> If it weren't for his Job I think he would be dead a long time ago....

Wow, as long as he's enjoying himself and not slaving away in some minimum-wage job.

Re Saenger's point about the aged taking jobs away from others who need them. This is a good point that governments do not seem to be addressing. It is very difficult to ensure that everyone who needs a job has one, and I am thinking of a reasonable job here - in US terms, one with medical/dental, retirement benefits, etc.

In my country we have problems as well. There was an excellent book written called "The Selfish Generation", by an academic (historian I think) who points out that in NZ the generation retiring now received back more credits (money) from the government than they actually put in, and now expect to also have full retirement benefits as well. NZ has been operating a "pay as you go" retirement system, so that current retiree benefits are paid by the current employees. [sigh] However, this older lot:
- got free university education
- got cheap housing loans (3% interest, I dream of that!!)
- got universal child payments (ie not means tested), which worked out in current terms to something like $160 per week per child
- could capitalise the child payments to use for a deposit on a house (no refunds back to government if the child died).

By comparison, my generation:
- pays around one-third of our own education, funded by student loans. And when I first got a loan in the early 1990s, it had daily compounding interest from the day I took it out!!! At 7%!!!
- student allowances means tested on the parents unless the student is 25 years or older. Includes students whose parents are divorced and the non-custodial parent hasn't contributed (of course, if the non-custodial parent writes a letter to say they're not contributing their income is not included in the assessment, but guess how often they do that!!)
- no cheap housing loans, everything at market rates
- childcare payments wiped out in late 1980s/early 1990s, but these had never been indexed anyway, so when they disappeared they were around $25 per week (say, around $40 per week in today's terms)
- no childcare payments to capitalise
- and finally, a $20,000 student loan gives you enough qualifications to get a $28,000 a year job.

And I am also being told "no old age pensions for you". It's actually difficult to save with paying off a student loan, having private medical cover (although we do have a good public system in NZ, I just don't want to be on a waiting list for "elective" surgery), having income protection insurance, and now finally I have employer-subsidised superannuation because I am a public servant. Oh, and the tax credits for superannuation payments disappeared in the mid-1980s.

So I do feel a bit sore when older people in my country complain that they don't get enough money!!!

[spiel mode off]

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Message 99396 - Posted: 16 Apr 2005, 1:07:51 UTC - in response to Message 99036.

> As creator of the original thread I own the rights and lease them when
> necessary.

> Not anymore you ain't!
>
> A few of us have stepped in to spawn the thread when you were busy fondling --
> I mean, pondering BOTD nominees...
>
Got any SETI accounts created with old email addresses?

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Message 99397 - Posted: 16 Apr 2005, 1:09:41 UTC - in response to Message 99039.

> I thought it was understood, that the other thread of the same name should
> have been called the "I hate Bush/Republicans" thread. The subject ought to
> reflect the content . . . Misfit?

Exactly. It was given the Poli7 name without proper authorization.

And Timmy, I'll throw any news article in here that I think will spawn some sort of debate.

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Message 99398 - Posted: 16 Apr 2005, 1:12:42 UTC - in response to Message 99074.

> So is he taking away a job from some workless for his recreation, or does he
> realy need the money?
If he's more qualified to work than other applicants for that particular job then he has that choice to do so. Forced retirement (70 in a lot of places) is BS if that person is still qualified and productive.

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Message 99402 - Posted: 16 Apr 2005, 1:19:40 UTC - in response to Message 99191.
Last modified: 16 Apr 2005, 1:20:01 UTC

> Paul, sometimes you can be a Little paranoid...


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Message 99411 - Posted: 16 Apr 2005, 1:34:38 UTC

Paul Zimmerman
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Message 99496 - Posted: 16 Apr 2005, 6:11:29 UTC - in response to Message 99402.
Last modified: 16 Apr 2005, 6:12:46 UTC

> > Paul, sometimes you can be a Little paranoid...

Betimes, I've found it serves me better than constant abject complacency and inane frivolity..... ..... I enjoy that too, ....just not all the time.
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