Message boards :
Number crunching :
wasted time
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Alan M. MacRobert Send message Joined: 10 Apr 99 Posts: 13 Credit: 4,385,900 RAC: 1 |
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Spectrum Send message Joined: 14 Jun 99 Posts: 468 Credit: 53,129,336 RAC: 0 |
I see the point that one should configure their system only to download WU's if the machine will be on long enough to cruch them (in time for the deadline), but ksnash has a point that the client end could be tweaked to abort the number crunching if a unit passes it's deadline before completing. Might not be a bad idea for future versions. Of course one could argue that this would encourage downloading of WU's without regard to deadlines..... Ah, what a confusing world we live in.... Does that amount to answering your own question or questioning you own answers? Now I'm confuse |
Kajunfisher Send message Joined: 29 Mar 05 Posts: 1407 Credit: 126,476 RAC: 0 |
> > > > > ... and the limit on "connect every 'x' days" should probably be > closer > > to 3 > > > than 10. > > > > No thanks. > > 4 days worth of work is just right for me. > > 4 is 1 away from 3, 4 is 6 away from 10. 4 is closer to 3 than it is to 10. > glad you didn't say 11, i was running out of fingers and toes No matter where you go, there you are... |
Ron Send message Joined: 16 Sep 99 Posts: 47 Credit: 3,900,704 RAC: 0 |
> glad you didn't say 11, i was running out of fingers and toes Hmmmmm... by my count you should be able to make it up to twenty if using fingers and toes. Of course, if you are a military veteran who lost a couple limbs in the war, wouldn't I look like the biggest arse! <br><br><img src='http://www.boincsynergy.com/images/stats/1185sah.png'> <br> Thanks to Tim (Captain Avatar) for my groovy Red Foxx avatar! |
Spectrum Send message Joined: 14 Jun 99 Posts: 468 Credit: 53,129,336 RAC: 0 |
> > > glad you didn't say 11, i was running out of fingers and toes > > Hmmmmm... by my count you should be able to make it up to twenty if using > fingers and toes. > > Of course, if you are a military veteran who lost a couple limbs in the war, > wouldn't I look like the biggest arse! > Fred I love you're scence of humour |
ralic Send message Joined: 6 Jan 00 Posts: 308 Credit: 274,230 RAC: 0 |
> credit. Ijust noticed the results were past the time. If I am not going to > get credit for the time I volunteer for crunching it would be nice if the > client would go ahead and throw out the results since they are useless. While you feel that the results may be useless to you (report late and get no credit), they are not useless to the project. Each valid result is useful science. The goal of this project is science and not credit. I'm curious as to why you feel that the client should be changed to suit the goal of the user? Why do you feel that the time is wasted? |
ksnash Send message Joined: 28 Nov 99 Posts: 402 Credit: 528,725 RAC: 0 |
> > Alan I am confused by your post. > > I think the days of set it and forget it are over, BOINC was created to > include many projects and many different types of users... > > To down load a WU and then shut tour computer down, and then complain that the > WU expired, is a Dooh! type of problem. We should be telling the guy to turn > on his computer and if he wants to run it once and awhile then he should not > run any BOINC project... > > Keep in mind The programs were created for unused CPU time and dont have that > if > the CPU ISN't Running..... > > > > > I didn't turn it off for long time just one or two days yetall the sudden all the wu went to expire. Some were probably from the time that berekeley was down for a week. That pushed a bunch into expiring. Icouldn't see the expire date and didn't know that the ones I was crunching would automatically be thrown out. They don't keepthem because someone else has alreadycompleted them. BOINC is breaking a bunch of useful protocols. |
Paul D. Buck Send message Joined: 19 Jul 00 Posts: 3898 Credit: 1,158,042 RAC: 0 |
> > > glad you didn't say 11, i was running out of fingers and toes > > Hmmmmm... by my count you should be able to make it up to twenty if using > fingers and toes. Tom Lerher said once, "Base 8 is like base 10 really ... if you are missing 2 fingers ..." |
1mp0£173 Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 8423 Credit: 356,897 RAC: 0 |
> I didn't turn it off for long time just one or two days yetall the sudden all > the wu went to expire. Some were probably from the time that berekeley was > down for a week. That pushed a bunch into expiring. Icouldn't see the expire > date and didn't know that the ones I was crunching would automatically be > thrown out. They don't keepthem because someone else has alreadycompleted > them. BOINC is breaking a bunch of useful protocols. I only see two computers in your account. One has no work showing and "0 days" for the turn-around time. The other has a turn-around time of just under 14 days. "Expired" has a particular meaning in BOINC. It means that after the deadline, work units can be reassigned if a quorum has been met. If you return work "late" but you beat the other machines, and complete the quorum, then you get credit. I'm guessing that you have "connect every 'x' days" set to something near 10. You probably wouldn't have lost any work if that value was closer to 5. |
mikey Send message Joined: 17 Dec 99 Posts: 4215 Credit: 3,474,603 RAC: 0 |
> I see the point that one should configure their system only to download WU's > if the machine will be on long enough to cruch them (in time for the > deadline), but ksnash has a point that the client end could be tweaked to > abort the number crunching if a unit passes it's deadline before completing. > Might not be a bad idea for future versions. Of course one could argue that > this would encourage downloading of WU's without regard to deadlines..... > Ah, what a confusing world we live in.... > But even IF your units are expired, IF you send in your expired unit BEFORE the people that got it on the resend you WILL get credit for crunching it! Now Berkeley IS playing around with the units, they have been experimenting with sending units the second time to machines that return it 24 hours or less. Doesn't always work, but I have gotten some units like that before. |
Kajunfisher Send message Joined: 29 Mar 05 Posts: 1407 Credit: 126,476 RAC: 0 |
> > > > > glad you didn't say 11, i was running out of fingers and toes > > > > Hmmmmm... by my count you should be able to make it up to twenty if > using > > fingers and toes. This is a perfectly good reason why you should never post when you are tired. I didn't realize how tired I was until I woke up 1 1/2 hours later with my head on the keyboard. I am a veteran and I do have all my fingers and toes. I didn't think such a simple thing as counting your own fingers and toes could get so, well, complicated ;-) No matter where you go, there you are... |
Astro Send message Joined: 16 Apr 02 Posts: 8026 Credit: 600,015 RAC: 0 |
I > didn't think such a simple thing as counting your own fingers and toes could > get so, well, complicated ;-) > Don't forget that Thumbs aren't fingers. 10 toes, 8 fingers, 2 thumbs. Just to complicate it some more |
Paul D. Buck Send message Joined: 19 Jul 00 Posts: 3898 Credit: 1,158,042 RAC: 0 |
> Don't forget that Thumbs aren't fingers. 10 toes, 8 fingers, 2 thumbs. > > Just to complicate it some more Well, then base 6 is like base 8 really .... Thankfully, big toes are still big toes ... |
Kajunfisher Send message Joined: 29 Mar 05 Posts: 1407 Credit: 126,476 RAC: 0 |
lol No matter where you go, there you are... |
Siran d'Vel'nahr Send message Joined: 23 May 99 Posts: 7379 Credit: 44,181,323 RAC: 238 |
All I have to say is that if you're going to participate, participate 100% of the time. I have 2 PCs running 24/7/365. One crunches only SETI because it's my older slower PC. I do 3 projects on my just under a year old one. Nobody will benefit if someone downloads a bunch of WUs and then turns the PC off for a week or 2. Just my 2 scents worth.... >:-) L8R.... T'Khasi Time: Wednesday, 13 April 2005 - 05:43 PM --700 (Pacific Standard Time) CAPT Siran d'Vel'nahr - L L & P _\\// Winders 11 OS? "What a piece of junk!" - L. Skywalker "Logic is the cement of our civilization with which we ascend from chaos using reason as our guide." - T'Plana-hath |
1mp0£173 Send message Joined: 3 Apr 99 Posts: 8423 Credit: 356,897 RAC: 0 |
> All I have to say is that if you're going to participate, participate 100% of > the time. I have 2 PCs running 24/7/365. One crunches only SETI because it's > my older slower PC. I do 3 projects on my just under a year old one. Oh, I don't know..... I think that the point is: if you're going to participate, be consistent. You don't need to crunch 24/7 -- BOINC knows how much a host crunches each day and adjusts accordingly. At the same time, don't grab two weeks of work and then take a couple of weeks off either. Somewhere in the middle everything works fine. |
Digger Send message Joined: 4 Dec 99 Posts: 614 Credit: 21,053 RAC: 0 |
> All I have to say is that if you're going to participate, participate 100% of > the time. I must respectfully disagree with you on that one. Nobody is expected to crunch 24/7 if they normally would not have their computer(s) on all the time. SETI asks only that you donate spare CPU cycles, not create more cycles specifically to crunch WU's. In fact, i should think the developers would consider that as wasteful. With a little fine-tuning as Ned said, you can crunch for however many hours your computer is on daily, and contribute to the science of SETI every bit as much as the rest of us. :) Happy Crunching! Dig |
BarryAZ Send message Joined: 1 Apr 01 Posts: 2580 Credit: 16,982,517 RAC: 0 |
> I must respectfully disagree with you on that one. Nobody is expected to > crunch 24/7 if they normally would not have their computer(s) on all the time. > SETI asks only that you donate spare CPU cycles, not create more cycles > specifically to crunch WU's. In fact, i should think the developers would > consider that as wasteful. With a little fine-tuning as Ned said, you can > crunch for however many hours your computer is on daily, and contribute to the > science of SETI every bit as much as the rest of us. :) > I agree -- I've found that in order to avoid working units that will not be submitted by 'deadline', *manually* going into program files, BOINC, Projects, setiathome.berkeley.edu and deleting soon to be overdue untouched units so that I don't waste cycles on work that is a waste of CPU time, I can avoid the problem. However, frankly, this problem is something of a system design AND interface issue that probably SHOULD be dealt with in ways that don't require a manual attack mode. I mean, given the design choice to require duplicate results (multiple duplicate results) in order to eliminate 'cheating', you'd think there would be an option to kill off the units to avoid waste. I realize avoiding waste is viewed as unAmerican, but really. |
Misfit Send message Joined: 21 Jun 01 Posts: 21804 Credit: 2,815,091 RAC: 0 |
Can't argue with Gillian. |
Aurora Borealis Send message Joined: 14 Jan 01 Posts: 3075 Credit: 5,631,463 RAC: 0 |
> However, frankly, this problem is something of a system design AND interface > issue that probably SHOULD be dealt with in ways that don't require a manual > attack mode. I mean, given the design choice to require duplicate results > (multiple duplicate results) in order to eliminate 'cheating', you'd think > there would be an option to kill off the units to avoid waste. I realize > avoiding waste is viewed as unAmerican, but really. > > It is being dealt with. Boinc V 4.2x+ have an option to abort individual WU. My understand is that future versions will have a feature to assign extra time to WU that are nearing deadline to ensure they are done in time. Boinc 4.30 Alpha Boinc V7.2.42 Win7 i5 3.33G 4GB, GTX470 |
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