Wonder when we will be up again?

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Profile Everette Dobbins

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Message 80494 - Posted: 18 Feb 2005, 3:06:48 UTC

February 17, 2005
Update. Once the RAID rebuilds we are going to run a job to delete old workunits and results from the array. These would normally be deleted by the file deleter but the latter is still backed up from before the database migration. The project will remain off through all of this.

The latter is still backed up from before database migration. Checking techno news this problem is not listed. I hope we are not on a need to know bases and we dont need to know. Whats the point of having Technical news section. Server status if it isnt current. Please fix server and list possible side affects that may occure when you leave. Thanks.
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Profile KWSN - MajorKong
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Message 80536 - Posted: 18 Feb 2005, 4:15:09 UTC

These fixit jobs they run can take quite a bit of time to complete. The project will be up when it is up. The techno news was never intended to be a complete, detailed log of everything they do, and the server status page is only generated every 20 minutes... They will, I am sure, post something in the 'news' section, when they get a chance, but the project staff is under no obligation to tell us every little thing they do to try and fix the project and keep it stable.

Now, I believe that you wish that the staff would post a little more detail a little more often. Many of us wish this, but the staff (just like the rest of us here) are only human, and there are only just so many minutes in a day. We should be happy with the frequency/detail level they DO post news with, for it is way better than nothing. And as far as them listing every possible little side effect that their actions might have... That would be a huge waste of time on their part, even if they COULD think of them all (again, they are only human, not gods). They are doing a great job... Cut them some slack.

If you are worried that your farm might run out of work and go idle during these outages, why not attach to one (or more) of the other BOINC projects. I am sure they would appreciate a time slice on your farm! That way, if (and when... :P) SETI goes down, if you run out of SETI, the other projects will take up the slack. If you wish to remain 'seti-only', please realize that as time goes on, and more users sign up here, that work will get increasingly scarce. Increasing amounts of idle time are the price a seti-only person will have to pay.
https://youtu.be/iY57ErBkFFE

#Texit

Don't blame me, I voted for Johnson(L) in 2016.

Truth is dangerous... especially when it challenges those in power.
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Profile Everette Dobbins

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Message 80540 - Posted: 18 Feb 2005, 4:24:28 UTC - in response to Message 80494.  

> February 17, 2005
> Update. Once the RAID rebuilds we are going to run a job to delete old
> workunits and results from the array. These would normally be deleted by the
> file deleter but the latter is still backed up from before the database
> migration. The project will remain off through all of this.
>
> The latter is still backed up from before database migration. Checking techno
> news this problem is not listed. I hope we are not on a need to know bases and
> we dont need to know. Whats the point of having Technical news section. Server
> status if it isnt current. Please fix server and list possible side affects
> that may occure when you leave. Thanks.
>
>
I wish I had the patience that you have I dont mean to be so negative it just seams this programs not doing so well this seti@home is all I have crunched. I was hoping for astropulse but didnt happen. Ill shut up now.
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Profile Rachel
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Message 80542 - Posted: 18 Feb 2005, 4:26:37 UTC

I have 4 days worth of work left.I will happily wait until they fix it.If I run out I will give me pc a break.A holiday ;-)
......In Space No One Can Hear You Scream......



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Profile ponbiki

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Message 80546 - Posted: 18 Feb 2005, 4:30:36 UTC - in response to Message 80540.  


> I wish I had the patience that you have I dont mean to be so negative it just
> seams this programs not doing so well this seti@home is all I have crunched. I
> was hoping for astropulse but didnt happen. Ill shut up now.

It's not patience, it's the understanding that people are fallible and, despite all the best of intentions, things will fail. That's why it's science, nothing is absolutely certain and when things go broke, we have people there to fix it. The purpose of BOINC was to allow many different applications to run so when one has no science or, god-forbid this happens, goes down completely, there are other avenues to pick up. I myself am a Seti-Only, mainly since I run BOINC from my laptop and it piques my interest the most. A person with many resources would definitely be welcome on the other projects because you have a lot to offer. I concur with Majorkong and highly suggest you join up with other projects. If you don't feel like it, perhaps the next time the servers are running, increase your WU cache to maybe something like 4-5 days.(Mine is set at 10 only because of the constant problems recently.)

Keep crunching, we're all working, in theory, for the same goal. :)
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Message 80557 - Posted: 18 Feb 2005, 4:58:55 UTC - in response to Message 80542.  

> I have 4 days worth of work left.I will happily wait until they fix it.If I
> run out I will give me pc a break.A holiday ;-)
>

I only have about 2 to 2 1/2 days of work left Cached with SETI BOINC. If in 2 1/2 days SETI BOINC is still not up, I will fall back to my Old Standby SETI CLASSIC until BOINC gets back running. If and when SETI CLASSIC comes to an End, I will pick up another BOINC project like Einstein as a Standby.
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Profile KWSN - MajorKong
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Message 80560 - Posted: 18 Feb 2005, 5:09:18 UTC - in response to Message 80540.  
Last modified: 18 Feb 2005, 5:16:13 UTC

> I wish I had the patience that you have I dont mean to be so negative it just
> seams this programs not doing so well this seti@home is all I have crunched. I
> was hoping for astropulse but didnt happen. Ill shut up now.
>

Everette,

SETI/BOINC is just having 'growing pains' right now as they shuffle things around in preparation for SETI-Classic going offline. Per Matt (project staff)
in this post:

http://setiweb.ssl.berkeley.edu/forum_thread.php?id=11632#79981

they are just days away from sending out THE e-mail to the classic people to start the conversion process... Things around here are likely to get hectic over the next 2 to 3 months as Classic gets its plug pulled, and all project hardware is shuffled around (not to mention a flood of people totally NEW to BOINC here on the forums). I understand your frustration, but believe me... More is coming.

AFAIK, work on astropulse has been picked up again, and they are working towards an alpha-release... Not sure of the timeframe, but i would expect work to begin in earnest once Classic is put to bed.



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Profile ghstwolf
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Message 80563 - Posted: 18 Feb 2005, 5:20:13 UTC - in response to Message 80557.  

> > I have 4 days worth of work left.I will happily wait until they fix it.If
> I
> > run out I will give me pc a break.A holiday ;-)
> >
>
> I only have about 2 to 2 1/2 days of work left Cached with SETI BOINC. If in
> 2 1/2 days SETI BOINC is still not up, I will fall back to my Old Standby SETI
> CLASSIC until BOINC gets back running. If and when SETI CLASSIC comes to an
> End, I will pick up another BOINC project like Einstein as a Standby.
>

Einstein isn't a great standby, the WUs only last a week. Climate predictor, is a good fall back, year long WUs. I run it about 10% of the time or just over 2 hrs a day (enough to finish on time without another project going down).



Still looking for something profound or inspirational to place here.
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mrstatzer

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Message 80564 - Posted: 18 Feb 2005, 5:21:57 UTC

I think I'll try another project until they have it worked out... I have pending credits from about a month ago...Later, guys!
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Timcom99

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Message 80579 - Posted: 18 Feb 2005, 5:48:13 UTC - in response to Message 80563.  

> > > I have 4 days worth of work left.I will happily wait until they fix
> it.If
> > I
> > > run out I will give me pc a break.A holiday ;-)
> > >
> >
> > I only have about 2 to 2 1/2 days of work left Cached with SETI BOINC.
> If in
> > 2 1/2 days SETI BOINC is still not up, I will fall back to my Old Standby
> SETI
> > CLASSIC until BOINC gets back running. If and when SETI CLASSIC comes to
> an
> > End, I will pick up another BOINC project like Einstein as a Standby.
> >
>
> Einstein isn't a great standby, the WUs only last a week. Climate predictor,
> is a good fall back, year long WUs. I run it about 10% of the time or just
> over 2 hrs a day (enough to finish on time without another project going
> down).
>
>

WOW! Year Long Work Units? I will only be able to complete about 40 of them before I Die:(
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Profile Borgholio
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Message 80589 - Posted: 18 Feb 2005, 6:32:24 UTC - in response to Message 80579.  


>
> WOW! Year Long Work Units? I will only be able to complete about 40 of them
> before I Die:(
>

Well now isn't THAT a depressing thought. Don't you belong in the United Devices forums? :-P
You will be assimilated...bunghole!

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Message 80737 - Posted: 18 Feb 2005, 22:39:55 UTC - in response to Message 80579.  

> WOW! Year Long Work Units? I will only be able to complete about 40 of them
> before I Die:(
>

Those are deadline times, a dedicated (2 GHz) machine should be able to do 1 a month (2 on the HT boxes). For my box (roughly 1250/3600 ops #s) it takes 500+ hrs, I worked out that 10% time is enough to do 1 in roughly 9 months (while only consuming 2hrs a day). That's what makes it a great down time project.

Einstein OTOH, only gives you a week and it take @3 times longer than a Seti WU (the deadline will probably be extended to 2 weeks before it goes public). Since I happen to be in, I've got my time divided up like so: 45% seti, 45% einstein, 10% CP. Now I just need to get another box or ten running.


Still looking for something profound or inspirational to place here.
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Profile Paul D. Buck
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Message 80927 - Posted: 19 Feb 2005, 15:46:12 UTC - in response to Message 80540.  

> I wish I had the patience that you have I dont mean to be so negative it just
> seams this programs not doing so well this seti@home is all I have crunched. I
> was hoping for astropulse but didnt happen. Ill shut up now.

No reason to "shut up". This is the place to talk about what you are talking about.

Major Kong has said the most important things. But I will say that we are in a new world of distributed computing (DC) and are learning new lessons. Just like when the first generation DC projects started. Each had, and has, issues with getting work out, getting work in and running the back-end processes. Even SETI@Home Classic has had issues and long periods where there were major problems.

If you go back and look at the historical logs of the problems for the four years they cover, you will see the usual suspects.

BOINC is intended to make those problems smaller in their impact on the Participant by keeping them, and their computers, fully employed. Does it work perfectly yet? No. Is it getting better? Yes. Will it be "perfect" next week? Not hardly.

But, I Participate in 4 projects at the moment. When LHC@Home comes up I will add it to the list. When Einstein@Home gets the rest of its act together and is more mainstream I will be adding more of my computers back into the project.

There are rumors of up to 13 BOINC projects in the works (The Lattice Project being one of them ...) so we will have more to pick and choose from.

Each new project added has added new places that are "Opportunities to excell", AKA "problems" that get worked on and solved. CPDN did this with the need for "Trickle Reporting" and long runnng work units, Einstein@Home has had problems with the scheduler. Over time these have been fixed and we move on ...

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Message 80951 - Posted: 19 Feb 2005, 18:00:08 UTC

Personally, I have some WU's yet in my cache, but it'll only last a few more days. However, I'd wish they could give us SOME idea of when they're back online, since we then could just set the program to "Disable BOINC Network Access" until that time.

About shutting down classic SETI: I think they should be sure things are stable and ready before shutting down the classic SETI project. By ready, I mean also capable of handling the increased traffic. Another problem I foresee, is the storm of protests from the classic participants about the policy of not converting classic WU's after May 2004! Many, who don't know about this yet, will feel they've been fooled. I guess a great many people will leave the project for good in anger, if not this policy is altered and ALL WU's are converted after the classic project is unplugged.

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Message 80955 - Posted: 19 Feb 2005, 18:15:06 UTC
Last modified: 19 Feb 2005, 18:16:36 UTC

From what I understand, they're going to take another screen shot a little while after they shut down the SAH I servers, and then they'll update everyone's accounts... This should make the die hard classic fans a little happier, though they're now much further behind in the BOINC credit race.

In other news, I'm attached to 6 projects and NONE of them are able to give me work right now. Thank goodness for Climate.... 845 hours of crunching guaranteed!!!

(Edited for spelling)
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Message 80961 - Posted: 19 Feb 2005, 18:42:38 UTC

> From what I understand, they're going to take another screen shot a little while after they shut down the SAH I servers, and then they'll update everyone's accounts...

That's great news! I didn't know that. Then I'll get credited an extra 300 or so WU's. :)

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Message 80965 - Posted: 19 Feb 2005, 18:51:04 UTC

Its good, i hoped they would do it (if they do) 50 or so wu and all the seti classic users get what they deserve!

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Message 80980 - Posted: 19 Feb 2005, 19:37:14 UTC - in response to Message 80927.  


> Major Kong has said the most important things. But I will say that we are in a
> new world of distributed computing (DC) and are learning new lessons. Just
> like when the first generation DC projects started. Each had, and has, issues
> with getting work out, getting work in and running the back-end processes.
> Even SETI@Home Classic has had issues and long periods where there were major
> problems.

Actually, there are several things that are important, and have been overlooked:

1) BOINC is more robust than Classic -- it caches work, it holds it while the servers are down. In addition to the project I've been struggling with connectivity issues and I'm processing away.

I'm also crunching SETI and Einstein so as long as one is up, I've got work.

2) It sure looks like SETI is passing out work, even if the uploads are failing.
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Dave Mickey

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Message 81010 - Posted: 19 Feb 2005, 23:12:09 UTC

>2) It sure looks like SETI is passing out work,
>even if the uploads are failing.

You're luckier than me. Since about 15:00 UTC, I've had one
system asking for work, and is still getting "no schedulers
responded". A few hours later, a second system started
requesting work and is meeting the same fate. A third
machine did manage to get some units yesterday, so it's
still happy. Also, yesterday some uploads happened for
me in the 20:00 to 22:00 UTC range, but now finished
WUs are stacking up again since then.

I agree about the design of BOINC being more robust
than (bare) Classic, since the cache in BOINC has allowed
me to continue cruching non-stop thru this problem. (oops,
hope I didn't just violate some Tandem trademark....) But
at this point I'd say the implementation at s@h is not yet
what it needs to be.

By bare, I mean with no addons - with SETI Driver, Classic
has been bullet-proof for me for years......

Dave




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1mp0£173
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Message 81017 - Posted: 20 Feb 2005, 0:02:39 UTC - in response to Message 81010.  

> I agree about the design of BOINC being more robust
> than (bare) Classic, since the cache in BOINC has allowed
> me to continue cruching non-stop thru this problem. (oops,
> hope I didn't just violate some Tandem trademark....) But
> at this point I'd say the implementation at s@h is not yet
> what it needs to be.

Have you changed any of the default settings, esp. number of days between connections?
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Message boards : Number crunching : Wonder when we will be up again?


 
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